Thursday, February 25, 2010

Interesting Posts and Articles #261

  1. As an update to my discussion of breaking the glass under the chuppah, it appears that this condemnation of the degradation of the minhag into a contest of strength, in which wedding participants exclaim 'Mazal Tov',

    המנהג נהפך למין התהדרות גבורה, שהחתן דורך בכח על הכוס ומשברו לרסיסים וכל הקרואים (מוזמנים) ממלאים פיהם שחוק ואומרים 'סימן טוב' והוא ההיפך מכוונת התקנה
     is not original to Rav Ovadiah Yosef. From a book:

    How unfortunate it is, therefore, that the phrase of Jerusalem’s destruction is rarely recited and, instead, a chorus of mazal tov’s greets the breaking of the glass. If the reason for the glass breaking is to temper joy, this is surely inappropriate; if the reason is to recall a national tragedy, it is vulgar. Often not only is a joyous mazal tov sounded, but a licentious sneer that it is a "good sign" if the glass is smashed at the first try. This elicits gross comments regarding the groom’s prowess. The late Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, Ben Zion Ouziel, wished that he could have abolished the custom for this very reason. In fairness, however, it should be noted that the mazal tov is not so much in response to the breaking of the glass, as it is to the end of the ceremony. In any case, it would be less than responsible to eliminate a millennial tradition because of some people’s untutored reaction to it. Perhaps we should reinstitute the reference to Jerusalem and move the glass breaking back to the middle of the wedding ceremony.
  2. Matzav rants about Vos Iz Neias getting an exclusive interview with the meshuggena who runs a Baal Teshuva yeshiva and who smashes computers. Is it sour grapes, about not getting the interview? Is it part of general attacks between competitors? Or is it genuine belief that one should not have given this crazy a forum for his views? From my perspective, sunlight is the best disinfectant.
    a
  3. Revach promotes other segulos from Rabbi Menachem Mendel MiRimanov.

    But here is a lesser know segula for parnasa by the same Tzaddik.  He says to say V'Yiten Licha together with another person on Motza'ei Shabbos.

    The Minhag Yisroel Torah (295:1) brings from the Igra D'Tzvi a reason for this.  He says that it is brought down that when the Ba'al Korei reads the curses of the Tochacha no one should stand near him, since we don't want the curses to go on anyone.  Since "Middah Tova Miruba", good things have a far more powerful reach and effect than bad things, standing near someone saying the Brachos of V'Yiten Licha  will surely bestow blessing upon you.
    We have enough segulos, thank you very much. And minhagim used to grow organically, and were specific to their groups. Nowadays they spread via email forwards, like chain mail. I don't think this is a good thing.
    a
  4. Wolfish Musings with a tznius lunacy roundup.
    a
  5. Regarding drinking on Purim, we have Rabbi Yakov Horowitz posting at Beyond BT, on parenting and drinking responsibly. Emes veEmunah with Drunk as a Skunk. And the Rebbetzin's Husband reposts about drinking on Purim.



    a
  6. Lion of Zion on how to write the ten sons of Haman.
    a
  7. What makes a godol? Not Brisker Yeshivish. Emes veEmunah. Yachdus. And see this parshablog post on the making of a gadol.
    a
  8. The latest ban appears to be Rabbi Karp trying to ban all sorts of fish, just for the halibut. With a quote from Rabbi Sholom Fishbane. Also, Rav Kanievsky on whether you can use Coca Cola instead of wine for Shalach Manos.
    a
    Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humour, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing."
    a
    I myself am not so certain about some of these, whether they are Purim humor or for real. They both smell like spoofs. But that may well be because the reality is already just so ridiculous.
    a
  9. At My Ober Dicta, this photo, along with the question, "Did Someone Say Idolizing Rabbis?"

While it is true that it is quite reminiscent of the idea of Jesus suffering and dying for the sins of present and future Christians, it does have precedent in Jewish belief.

Yeranen Yaakov with the original story -- an excerpt:
"I asked him, 'Maybe all this suffering is because of me, maybe because of the children or the grandchildren or daughters-in-law - one of us did something [wrong]?! Master of the universe!' He said, 'No, no, because of Kelal Yisrael'. I asked him, 'At least you could tell me what this process will bring?' He wrote, 'Mashiah'.
and in a separate post, ample justification and demonstration that the belief has Jewish origins. For example:
Bava Metzia 84b-85a: Ribbi Elazar BeRibbi Shimon had terrible suffering. Kohelet Rabba 11:7 quotes his wife, who quotes him as saying "All the suffering of Israel should come upon me," and it did. (והוה אמר דכל יסוריהון דישראל ייתון עלי והיינון אתיין) 

Still, Chazal maintained many beliefs, some of which are arcane (and which have fallen out of favor), and some not. It is what Christianity did with it, what prominence was granted to this belief, and how it fit in with the rest of the belief system. And it is perhaps for us to be cognizant of how we might be straying in the same direction. Rabbi Eliyahu must be extremely knowledgeable, or confident, in his tzidkus and importance in the greater scheme of things. And given other prominent beliefs idolizing rabbis, dead and alive, and given the messianic tie-in (that his suffering is to bring mashiach), it still gives me pause.

5 comments:

yaak said...

It gave me pause too until I started researching it.
It's not just Hazal. I brought proofs from Rishonim and Aharonim too. Especially see the Ramha"l. It's hardly arcane.

It's not idolization, either. It's part of the concept of Tzaddik Yesod Olam that is part of our tradition. Not Avoda Zara in the slightest.

joshwaxman said...

"It gave me pause too until I started researching it."
which makes it arcane...

was the ramchal really popular in his day, or did his contemporaries try to ban him?

;)

kt,
josh

yaak said...

which makes it arcane...
What goes on in my humble head is not a Re'aya.

The Ramhal is popular in our day, so what's the difference?

-------

Regarding drinking on Purim, I saw a quote from an obscure sefer written by the Ben Ish Hai (called עטרת תפארת, that I couldn't find in HebrewBooks.org) that those who are careful with mitzvot should have a 15-course meal on Purim and drink 15 cups of wine - and the bigger the cup, the better - as long as you do it לשם שמים.

Not for the Hamon Am, I'd say - and wouldn't advise this to 99% of people.

Mississippi Fred MacDowell said...

I don't know what conclusion you can draw from this, but as I show here, the Ramhal was notable enough to be included in Wolf's Bibliotheca Hebraea at age 26.

joshwaxman said...

"What goes on in my humble head is not a Re'aya."
I think it is. Perhaps unfairly, I would divide this into two separate questions:

1) is this mainstream theology nowadays?
2) was this mainstream theology in the days of the ramchal?

while ramchal was certainly notable, he was banned from writing sefarim on kabbalah, and composed Mesilat Yesharim when under that ban (since he was not allowed to write what he wanted). his position on this matter, of tzaddikim suffering and accepting suffering on behalf of the generation, might well be mainstream, but it might not.

that ramchal is mainstream, and popular, nowadays, does not necessarily mean that obscure positions of his are also accepted as mainstream. e.g. the chareidi world accepts rambam, but reject his position on philosophy. if this is obscure enough, then that he is popular nowadays does not bring every quirky position of his into acceptance. sort of like how, despite abarbanel being accepted, his position on the possibility of mashiach from the dead is not accepted theology by the general Jewish community.

and ideas can independently be innocuous, but when combined together can produce a noxious result.

very interesting about the 15 cups of wine. that is one more cup of wine during the purim meal than Rav Yosef Karo drank throughout the entirety of Shabbos. :)

kt,
josh

LinkWithin

Blog Widget by LinkWithin