Monday, May 25, 2009

You mean you *still* call this an apocalypse?!

Nava at Dreaming of Moshiach is standing firm in the Tzaddik Nistar's prediction, despite the fact that Rosh Chodesh Sivan has come and gone without incident. This despite her previously admitting "surprise" when her previous prediction, the apocalypse on Rosh Hashanah, failed to surface. Much as her prediction of nuclear holocaust several years back failed to surface.

I see she edited some of what she wrote, to make it shorter, so I will cite her post in its present state, though I will also analyze part of what was taken out.

Critical Moments

Unfortunatley, some people just don't get it -- the warning to come to Eretz Israel has NOT been extended. The deadline to come to Israel safely was Rosh Chodesh Sivan 5769!!!!!!

To better understand the crucial situation, I'll give an example from our holy Torah. When HKB'H ordered Noach HaTzaddik, zs'kl, to enter the ark with his family and all the animals, the flood did not begin on that day. People continued mocking Noach HaTzaddik even as he entered the ark.

SEVEN days after the deadline, it began drizzling but this clear sign did not stir the people. When the drizzle turned into rain, people continued to ridicule Noach HaTzaddik's warnings. By the time people realized the rain turned into a catastrophic world-wide flood, it was too late...


How many signs to you need to see in order to realize that something cataclysmic is arriving? Get out while you still can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no time. The decree began 3 days before Rosh Chodesh Sivan with a 30 day margin. It can happen tonight, in 7 days... the maximum amount of time it will transpire is within 26 days! It will happen -- this is NOT a false alarm!!!!

At any given moment from Rosh Chodesh Sivan, it can strike!!!

Many of you that will choose to remain in the diaspora, c'v, after it will strike, will not be able to sit behind a computer and mock that this warning was bugos!!!!!!!! KNOW that if you mocked and ridiculed the warning, for my part you are completely forgiven!!!!

If you cannot leave the diaspora for whatever reason, use these precious moments to do Teshuva, return to HKB'H.
The thing is, to say it has not been extended, and then to turn around and say that there is a thirty day wiggle room, is self-contradictory. By Noach, there is a midrash that it extended for an extra seven days to allow for the burial of Metushelach. That does not mean that every such deadline has some wiggle room.

Moshe gave Pharaoh warnings of impending plagues. Did those arrive a week or a month later than when Moshe said? Indeed, Moshe said about midnight, so that if the mitzrim were a bit off in their counting, they would not be able to claim that Moshe was incorrect, if it arrived (so they thought) a minute after midnight.

Yes, they mocked Noach as he entered the teva, according to midrash. And they laughed at Newton, and Galileo. But the also laughed at Bozo the clown. And not everyone who is mocked is in the right.

At any rate, we should now really set up another clock, this time for 26 days from now. I am truly curious to see what Nava will say at that point!

I have a clue what she will say. My guess is that she will treat it as a step towards geulah. In the portion she removed, or didn't -- it keeps popping in and out for me -- she already started saying how significant events happened on that day, such as:
* 6th Yeshiva closed due to the recent swine flu outbreak
* Russia dumps U.S. Dollar and adopts the Euro as reserve currency.
* North Korea defiantly conducted its second and more powerful nuclear test

Nothing happens coincidentally, everything has an indication, we just have to observe the connections.


Get out while you still can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The answer to this is that, whether or not these particular items are true as written (e.g. this was reported by Pravda on last Wednesday, the 20th, so it could not have happened Russia on Rosh Chodesh Sivan, the 25th), it does not matter.

We live in an information age, where local and national news from all over the globe is instantly available, and in an age with the media trying to sell papers by increasing the drama. Some time last year, the AP published an article titled "Everything Seemingly Is Spinning out of Control", with a subtitle of "Out-of-control weather, gas prices, economy chip away at American self-confidence." Read this article for a counter-argument.

As a result of this overblown media hype, OpinionJournal's Best of the Web made Everything Seemingly Is Spinning out of Control a regular feature. They take the crazy things that happen mamesh bechol yom and lump it under that category. Whatever their point is, the point to my mind is that anyone can latch onto any random events and claim that a particular day was supremely meaningful. And that, had we had the media resources we have nowadays, 1000 years ago, they would have similarly been able to claim everyday that everything seemingly is spinning out of control.

For example, from the 22nd of May:

  • "Wind Turbines 'Killed Goats' by Depriving Them of Sleep"--headline, Daily Telegraph(London), May 22
  • "18-Stone Prostitute Shatters the Peace for Neighbors"--headline, Scotsman, May 22
  • "Tasmanian Devils Officially Endangered"--headline, Toronto Star, May 22
  • "Real Soldiers Love Their Robot Brethren"--headline,, May 22
  • "With 'Dance Flick,' It's Wall-to-Wall Wayans"--headline, USA Today, May 22
  • And from April 26-27:
  • "Closing In on Goat Scrapie"--headline, USDA/Agricultural Research Service press release, April 26
  • "Shin Bet: 'Pope Mobile' Not Good Enough to Protect Pontiff"--headline, Haaretz, April 26
  • "Pajama-Clad Toddlers Ransack Neighbor's Home"--headline, WYFF-TV Web site (Greenville, S.C.), April 27
  • "Waterford Township Winds Blow Chihuahua Away"--headline, Detroit News, April 27
  • "Obama's Host Dies From 'Flu-Like Symptoms' "--headline, Independent (London), April 27

    Zvika said...

    Any thoughts about what the Rabbanim she has cited have said about the whole thing?

    joshwaxman said...

    I have some thoughts, but I am going to hold back. I will say two things:

    1) They are part of the general culture in which such pronouncements are made, and likely are part of the background inspiring the autistics, dreamers, etc., in their words in the first place. That does not necessarily mean that they endorse the specific messages, such as apocalypse on day X, or the specific mechanisms (facilitated communication, attributing such significance to dreams)
    though one will naturally find backup to the statements in statements these rabbis have made.

    2) It is forbidden to remind a baal teshuva that he used to be a sinner, because he changed and that embarrasses him. However, I believe that the term "baal teshuva" as used in the time of the gemara describes a different phenomenon than the baal teshuva of today, and that a history of being a secular is not "sinning." But such a past, or rather, the transition, *does* have bearing on statements made in the present, and such a past cannot be neglected.

    Both Rabbi Shalom Arush and Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak are baalei teshuva. This means that they do not necessarily have the home-grown sense of what is "normal" Judaism. And Rabbi Arush "converted" to Breslover chassidus, a chassidus without a real guiding figure, and a free-for-all for many crazies. Both of these rabbis address other baalei teshuva. So they sort of get to make their own Judaism and market to others, and people are happy at this kiruv. It is the blind leading the blind.

    That they have "rabbi" in front of their name does not, IMHO, make them privy to any special knowledge (just as my title of rabbi does not grant me any special knowledge).

    So yes, I am unhappy with their statements as well, and their role in the general environment as well. But at least in the case of this Tzadik Nistar, we can point to a fixed date, and know one way or the others. Others just keep saying "really soon" to induce a continuous hyper and anxious state, with no end in sight and no way of calling them on it.

    kol tuv,

    Yosef Greenberg said...

    R' Amnon Yitzchak does say 1 or 2 years in one of his recent videos. Although he say's "I feel".


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