Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Interesting Posts and Articles #374

1. MO Chassid comes out of temporary retirement to speak about the unspeakable.

2. Hezbos on faith in Hashem and Moshiach:
We are being squeezed spiritually because many Jews have yet to submit and yearn for Moshiach's second revelation.
As someone emailed me, oy.

3. Hazak weEmatz with more tznius hyperventilation, taking local definitions of tznius and applying it universally, and translating and promoting a specific kol korei. In part, it refers to, though summarizes, this Rabbenu Yonah (and here) (see right).

4. A stoning of a female driver in Bet Shemesh over lack of modesty.

5. A taanis dibur prevents a home-birth mother from going to the hospital.
In a ridiculous story, worse than ridiculous really as lives were in danger, a woman in Jerusalem refused to go to a hospital to give birth, or even after birth for examination and care, because she was in the middle of a taanis dibbur -  a speech fast -at the time of birth.

According to this report on Kikar, on this past Motzei Shabbos MDA and the police were called in to deal with a woman who had given birth earlier in the day but refused to allow herself to be brought to the hospital for care. Her husband called the authorities. he claims to not have been home at the time of birth, but at some point during the day he had come home and discovered his wife in the bedroom holding the newborn baby that was still attached by the umbilical cord.

They tried to persuade her to allow them to bring her and the baby to the hospital, but she refused to communicate with them.
It gets sillier.

6. A Jewish man won't help his wife, who is giving birth, because he is not allowed to touch her, as she is a niddah. Instead, he flags down a truck driver. I guess he had never heard of the idea of a chassid shoteh.

7. Mekubal shares some stories from his kabbalistic yeshiva. This posed question:
There is this girl, who’s mother ran off on her father years ago, got pregnant and had this girl.  The girl is now 12 or 13yrs old.  So it appears that she is a Mamzeret.  Should I publicize the fact with posters around town?
And second, this:

The guy explains that before he is willing to get married, he wants a prenuptial agreement.  At first I think it is one of those Halakhic prenups, after all they are both fairly modern.  It was not.  It was a prenup that gave the following conditions
  1. She would unconditionally accept a Get if he wanted to give one.
  2. She waives all rights to her Ketubah price.
  3. If he passes she gets none of his assets nor her Ketubah.
  4. If they have children and he passes, custody of the Children will go to his mother, if she is also deceased then to one of his siblings who will accordingly inherit his entire estate.
Nothing says love like sitting your intended down and telling her that you want to leave her bereft if you tire of her or predecease her. 

As a follow-up, who attends a kabbalistic yeshiva?

8. At Hirhurim, berachot in the course of the meal.

9. Rav Wosner asks a kallah for a blessing.


in the vanguard said...

Josh - In my youth long ago early 60's, I was a student of Rav Gifter in Telse (and since have been on a long and winding road).

Anyhow - I want to address your "oy" regarding the Hezbos article you refer to. You know that the gemora says somewhere that one mean joke can ruin 300 proofs - or something to that effect. Which is why, perhaps, Hashem went to the trouble of creating Yitschok to look like Avrohom, to counter the mockers that said Sarah was impregnated by Avimelech - because mockers have in what they do, tiny as it is, much destructive power.

Anyhow - when I wrote that statement, I was sure there will be such reaction as yours, because some Jews fear that anything that remotely resembles what the goyim talk about is outright taboo. Well, as I'm sure you know, this idea of Moshiach being revealed, hidden, only to be revealed again - nevertheless - is a Jewish idea! The "oy" should therefore be a struggle to understand how that can be, rather than write it off.

In the article you referred to, I just brushed the topic. But here I go into much more detail, and because you for sure anticipate Moshiach's arrival, so much so that in your davening you mention it scores of times a day, I dare say it behooves you to at least make of it a quick read, otherwise, can we say you're behaving hypocritically?

In there I quote mostly non-chassidic sources, like midrashim, Rashi, Sefas Emes, Chassam Sofer and Ramban. These worthy sources will come to my support, at least to explain away the "oy" from my assertion's resembling that of the goyim.

As for my take of the Lubavitcher Rebbe as Moshiach - and for THAT you kvetched "oy", well for that it would take me way much longer to convince you, so for that I'll just say two things: Either wait until Moshiach comes, and you'll then see for yourself; Or, since you know Moshiach is not ME, and since you know Moshiach is not YOU, then what hurts you if IT IS the Rebbe of Chabad?!

Kol tuv!

in the vanguard said...

Excuse me Josh - but I cotinued reading your article, when I came across this sentence that smelled of bias: "I guess he had never heard of the idea of a chassid shoteh."

I went to the link and found NOTHING to suggest the Jew was a chassid. So, what you could have written was, "I guess he had never heard of the idea of a shoteh." Just as the Sota isn't a chassidishe woman per se!

This little anecdote of yours tells much about your flimsy attitude of some other Jews, as if your derech is superior and you can look down your nose at other Jews. Think again and you'll discover who, in this case, was the bigger shoiteh.

in the vanguard said...

Josh, remove #6 and I'll remove my post about you, here:

If you do, you can also delete the previous comment I left about #6.

Kol tuv!

joshwaxman said...


to explain, a chassid shoteh is a technical term from Chazal, and predates chassidus.

see here.

It refers to a pious fool. The classic case, associated with a is a man who won't save a drowning woman because he will have to touch her.

To see Lubavitch women use the precise term in referring precisely to this case, see this Imamother forum. I don't think they jumped to the conclusion that he was chassidish either.

kol tuv,

joshwaxman said...

here it is, in Sotah 21b:
What is a foolish pietist like? — E.g., a woman is drowning in the river, and he says: 'It is improper for me to look upon her and rescue her'

where different nuschaot have "so as not to look at erva".

all the best,

in the vanguard said...

OK Josh, my mistake then. Kol tuv!

Joe in Australia said...

What is someone who hasn't heard of a "chossid shoteh" doing paskening for himself by quoting "midrashim, Rashi, Sefas Emes, Chassam Sofer and Ramban."

Tell me, the Rebbe ZYA told his chassidim "aseh lecha rav", seek out someone to guide you in your Jewish life. Have you done so? Are they aware of the sort of things you write?

in the vanguard said...

Joe, the scholar, who has heard about everything in Talmud, I don't "pasken" anything on my own. I'm too stupid for that. As for the psak din you speak of, concerning a ZYA, put your fists in your pocket and follow this post's trail:

if you at all care.

Joe in Australia said...

The term appears in the codes of Jewish law including, I seem to recall, the Kitzur Shulchan Arukh. It's hardly obscure.

So tell me, have you got a rabbinic guide? Furthermore, the Rebbe ZYA said that his followers should be guided by Rabbonim and older Chassidim in their communities. Do these older Chassidim agree with your interpretation of the Rebbe's message?

joshwaxman said...

it does seem that the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch refers to this well-known idea. See here, which refers us to the laws of a choleh sheyesh bo sakana, in 92:1.

He writes:

דחויה היא שבת אצל סכנת נפשות, כמו שאר כל המצות שבתורה. לכן חולה שיש בו סכנה והוא אדם כשר, ואע"פ שלפעמים עושה עברה לתאבון - עיין יו"ד סימן קנ"ח וחו"מ סימן תכ"ה. ואפלו הוא תינוק בן יומו, מצוה לחלל עליו את השבת. ואם החולה אינו רוצה, כופין אותו על כך. ועון גדול הוא בידו להיות **חסיד שוטה**, שלא להתרפא בשביל איזה אסור, ועליו נאמר ואך את דמכם לנפשותיכם אדרש.

in the vanguard said...

Very interesting, Josh.

SF2K01 said...

7 is very interesting. At that point it looks very similar to just wanting his wife to be a pilegesh.


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