Sunday, July 25, 2010

Interesting Posts and Articles #273

  1. At Gizmodo, a new wine-drinking glass. Try drinking rov kos from of these during the seder night.
  2. Thoughts on Maharal etc. discusses some fellow who was trying to impose his stringencies on others, in terms of when to daven on erev Tisha be'Av, relatedly, what they should be eating during the seudah hamafsekes, and when they should be davening at the end, which would impact when they would be able to break their fast. Oy.
  3. PC World notices the Hirch lawsuit regarding what people said about sending the son to Tranquility bay.
  4. At Daat Torah, an interesting idea from Rav Sternbuch:

    There is also a more hidden aspect to this association: On occasion, a person might come to bais din thinking that he has an open and shut case, one hundred percent sure that he will be victorious. Yet, when the p'sak is issued, it is actually his opponent who is rendered the victor. How can he come to terms with what seems to be a clear perversion of justice? 

    The Zohar explains that this is the deeper connection between mishpot and Elokim. At times, there are debts that need to be repaid from other gilgulim, i.e., previous occasions that we lived in this world. Through some minor financial losses in this world, Elokim makes sure that a person can go into the next world free of previous debts. 

    Every Jew who experiences seemingly undeserved suffering in this world should keep the above concept in mind. Nothing in this world is for naught. Any travails that a person experiences during his lifetimes lessen the necessity for punishment in the next world. 
    We've all heard of the concept of gilgulim used to explain the seemingly undeserved physical suffering in the world. And this is undeserved pecuniary losses. What seems to be Rav Sternbuch's novel chiddush here is that this extends to losses in Bet Din. I am puzzled. Many balebatim who don't understand the intricacies of Choshen Mishpat may go into court thinking they have an open-and-shut case. But presumably the beis din paskens according to law, and what the fellow owes or is not owed. If it is halacha, then wouldn't it not be a "clear perversion of justice", despite what it "seems". If so, then this need not be the result of something owed by a previous gilgul, and indeed the present gilgul did something that incurred the loss al pi halachah. If, on the other hand, the beis din erred, then it would indeed be a perversion of justice, but one which came to be so as to transfer money from Reuven's gilgul to Shimon's gilgul. Perhaps the idea is that the intricacies of the law, applied correctly by beis din, coupled with the particular details of this case, made the person lose the case k'din in court. The halacha can sometimes be unjust, according to what truly transpired (despite e.g. lack of kosher witnesses) or according to some outside moral compass. But that such cases are not indicative of some flaw in halacha. There is din and there is a dayan, and this outcome came about because money was owed from a previous gilgul.

    I suppose this works out, once you assume gilgul is true and assume that gilgul is not an idea transferred from foreign religions.
  5. Vos Iz Neias reports that Israel's largest appliance company may halt service-calls to the chareidi community:

    Yesterday, the haredi rabbinical court issued a boycott against Electra Consumer Products, which resulted in violent attacks against the company’s technicians making service calls at haredi customers... By law, Electra Consumer Products must answer service calls, but the company decided that if the attacks against its personnel continue, it will ask the regulator for permission not to provide service.
    Assuming that this is true, then I think the company is in the right, and that more and more of this should happen.
  6. Five Towns Jewish Times mentions an Israeli yeshiva which expelled its students for obtaining driving licenses. (See previous discussions of this.)
  7. Also, the makers of the Magen clamp are going out of business in the aftermath of a lawsuit over a botched circumcision. Even though the Magen clamp is non-standard because many rabbis do/did not hold by it, Rav Soloveitchik did hold by it. There are of course medical mishaps that are possible with any procedure, but this may well be the fault of the American tort system which allows this assignation of blame because the documentation didn't warn of this as a possibility. The attorney, David Llewellyn, is an anti-circumcision advocate. From another case:

    "Never again can someone say that a young man who is dissatisfied with his circumcision as an infant is being frivolous when he objects to his mutilation and brings suit to obtain justice," Llewellyn said. "I would expect that this is just the first of many cases that will be brought by angry circumcised young men against their circumcisers."
    It is important to note that Stowell's circumcision was not botched. The "mutilation" described by his lawyer applies to any circumcision, botched or not.
  8. At Vos Iz Neias, taken from the Jewish Star, an Op Ed saying that the person putting out flyers blasting the victim and family for going to the police should not do so anonymously. While I think the author of these flyers is an idiot and a misguided jerk, and separate from that is not correct al pi halacha, I don't think that it makes sense to demand that he do this under his real name, and that if not it is a mark of something wrong. Given the recent arrest for obstruction of justice of someone who did just that via texting, there is good reason not to give his name, even if he were right. (Which he is not.)
  9. Avakesh puts up an interesting video of Rav Shteinman, from Kikar Shabbos. See his description over at his blog:

  10. Related:

    Rav Aharon Leib Steinman has quipped that Avrohom Avinu would not be accepted in our schools today because of his father, but Yishmael and Esav would be. 

  11. DovBear with two maaseh shehayas about yeshivish people criticizing Darwin and evolution while making basic errors as to the theory and operation of Darwinian evolution.


Anonymous said...

meir says
I am not sure why this rabbi has to drag beth din into it. why not say simply that if a person loses money by someone not being able to pay back a loan.
Or is it his bedatz makes so many mistakes that he has a guilty conscience and is covering up for it.
i wonder is that also his excuse for selling treifa chickens that in a previous gilgul they were kosher.

joshwaxman said...


without bringing in Beis Din, it seems to be a straightforward Zohar. i don't think this is meant as covering for errors by his beis din, but rather as encouragement for baalei din to emerge from beis din as righteous individuals, because they accepted the din among themselves. (still, i question his application, unless i misunderstood him.)

while you are joking about chickens, i think there is at least some likelihood that he believes that many chickens are indeed gilgulim; though i don't know what traif chickens are under discussion. eating a traif chicken would not elevate it -- that has to be done when the chicken is kosher. and there have been confirmed cases of chickens wrongly declared non-kosher that came back to be declared kosher...


meir said...

meir says
i am not joking about chickens far from it.
i believe his bedatz, rav landau bnei brak and kj are all treifa.
and all EU as well.

they only know that internet and worms are treifa.

monsey r gruber and most US are kosher.

They are all well aware of it.
but prefer not to reply.

at the moment the EU is banning shechita of animals. again its because they are still selling treifa chickens.
For the reasons why maybe i will put it on my blog it is too detailed to put here.
suffice is to say that professor John Webster of Bristol Uni in UK.
the expert on chickens says so.
He has written extensively about it his famous words are they are like a child of nine on 3 year old limbs. they grow them too quickly and they develop treifos in all their inside limbs not just the legs. of course a 3 year old lung and heart cant pump for a nine year old.
some rabbonim reply why beleive a goy what does he know.
well that is not my attitude. he knows better than all of them
they are shechted at 40 days and if not dont live much longer.
i have personally spoken to these rabbonim and many others and have never had a reply.
they have all recieved the professors pamphlets he is a emeritus one and very well known.

i have a lot more to say on this subject and many others not just posul kesubos the whole marriage today the kiddushin is a sham the eidim dont know the bride and those who do look will never remember her again.
i could go on.

if you cant take this post or are scared of being taken to court for calling them treifa i wish they would take me. you can delete it.
no wonder they say the internet is treifa they are scared of people like me showing them up.

Anonymous said...

meir says
google him to find many more articles

The modern commercial broiler is reared in enclosed sheds that may contain 50,000 birds to reach killing weight at an age of 42 days. This rate of production has been achieved mainly by genetic selection for rapid growth, and it has created a number of welfare problems, the most serious of which is "leg weakness": an industry euphemism for a range of painful limb disorders sufficient to cause lameness.

Fifteen years ago, I wrote that "approximately one-third of the heavy strains of broiler chicken are in chronic pain for approximately one-third of their lives". This view was shared by the UK Farm Animal Welfare Council (Fawc), who stated: "The current level of leg problems in broilers is unacceptable. The Council intends to look at this aspect of broiler production in five years' time, when significant improvements should be apparent. If no reduction in leg problems is found, we may recommend the introduction of legislation to ensure the required improvements."

Anonymous said...

meir says

Broilers only live for about eight weeks before being processed for human consumption. At the turn of the century it took a broiler 96 days to grow to slaughter weight (about two kilograms), today it takes 37 days as a result of selective breeding for quick meat growth.

Selective breeding and the addition of growth stimulants to feed, results in baby birds which have the bodies of adults. The March 2000 report on broiler welfare by the European Scientific Committee on Animal Health and Animal Welfare (SCAHAW) concluded "most of the welfare issues that relate specifically to commercial broiler production are a direct consequence of genetic selection for faster and more efficient production of chicken meat and associated changes in biology and behaviour".

Such accelerated growth rates of birds cause problems to chickens. The anatomical characteristics of their gait have altered causing leg and joint problems. In some cases the legs cannot support body weight leaving chickens to starve or dehydrate, as they are unable to support themselves and cannot access the automated feed and water systems found in the sheds
Broilers only live for about eight weeks before being processed for human consumption. At the turn of the century it took a broiler 96 days to grow to slaughter weight (about two kilograms), today it takes 37 days as a result of selective breeding for quick meat growth.

please read more and more about it.

joshwaxman said...

i meant joking about chicken gilgul, not about the kashrus.

i am not involved in the details of kashrus, but would suspect that there is a reason this is not problematic. either because the research is biased, from a lone-wolf animal-rights activist; or because these are not halachically technically treifa, even if they would not live out the year; or because the conditions of kosher animals are not the same. are you saying that these conditions are only true outside the US? which rabbis did you speak to? people knowledgeable about kashrus, or people like me?

this may be wrong or right, but i know that this has been discussed in other areas of kashrus, regarding milk from treifas and liver from force-fed geese. in such situation, certain prominent rabbis are not afraid to take a position, whether to permit or prohibit. and they do seem to be rather knowledgeable of various aspects of practical metzius. so i don't think this would just be swept under the carpet.

but i don't know, and don't have the time and inclination to research it. maybe.

kol tuv,

Anonymous said...

meir says
Thank you very much for your reply.

I have spoken to many rabbis.
All had no idea what i was talking about, most cant speak english.
Not one knew how old the chicken was when it was slaughtered. This has never been researched by any rabbi. They buy the cheapest chickens on the market. If anything the condition of kosher chickens are worse.
I can see its not a subject for you but i think its more important than any other.
In the US they are not boidek tsumas hagidim because its not necessary that proves the chickens are ok. only in kj where they buy up the cheap rubbish and call it kosher and over salt it perhaps that makes it kosher.
this animal rights professor maybe overdoing it but its hard to believe that there is actually no truth in what he says.
the comments dont allow me enough words so i have to make another one.


Anonymous said...

meir says
1 Is cruelty to animals wrong or only flea bites to humans.
2 Is it right to deform animals I think its worse than ‘clayim’
3 Do you think its ‘oineg shabbos’ to eat from such a chicken on shabbos and that is what god wants from us.
4 Is it right to drug chickens the same drugs one gets prison for in Japan so that they should get deformed to grow quicker.
5 When you see a deformed person you look aghast why is a chicken different
6 These chickens are ‘mesukenes’ they will die from diseases which are very likely treifa as well.
7 Every single organ is diseased. They are not checked. It stands to reason a three year old organ cannot work for a nine year old.
8 If you overload an engine what happens it conks out. These poor chicks all their engines are overloaded, heart lungs (perondidus (not spelled right)) liver (cirrhosis) stomach (ascites))

Anonymous said...

meir says

According to data from retail analysts TNS, released by the charity Compassion in World Farming, the chicken campaign has been a success, with free-range sales up 35 per cent and higher welfare chicken rising 42 per cent last year. But 82 per cent of birds remain in intensive indoor systems, where up to 50,000 are crammed into artificially-lit sheds without access to stimulus.

Dr Lesley Lambert, CIWF director of Research, said: "The reality is most chicken meat sold in our supermarkets comes from chickens that are intensively reared. Scientific studies show more than a quarter suffer lameness, alongside other major welfare issues such as sudden death syndrome, lung and heart difficulties." All chicken sold at the Co-operative, M&S and Waitrose is higher welfare and Sainsbury's has committed to do likewise. Fearnley-Whittingstall, whose show is called Chickens, Hugh and Tesco too, told The Independent: "What Tesco has done is a bit more than window dressing but a lot of it is window dressing."

please read the full long article.

The goyim have a choice jews have no choice.
i have spoken to bedatz and landau all have replied they have never researched the subject. they look at me as though coming from the moon saying their chickens are treifa.
i want to add in the olden times sanhedrin had to know seventy languages today it is imperative for a kashrus organiser to know english and to look at the internet to find the latest developments. unlike r Belsky of the OU and other organisations the bedaats and landau research nothing. you are under a total misapprehension of what todays rabbonim are really like.
they say in the next world it is the opposite. i dont know who will be sitting at the top but i do know who will be at the bottom.
Klein from Lakewood a real yiras shomain told me that he couldnt find anything wrong with his chickens so he called the top expert from rechovot. and he also couldnt. its only KJ who are selling treifa and thinking oversalting and dunking afterwards in their holy mikva makes them kosher.


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