Tuesday, March 15, 2011

Was the tsunami in Japan predicted by delusional tractor driver Nir ben Artzi?

No, it was NOT.

Some people are saying that he predicted it. Thus, from Yeranen Yaakov:
Kikar has an article with videos how the controversial figure R' [sic] Nir Ben Artzi predicted the tsunami.  According to this, Rav Dahan now has company as a tsunami-predicter.

You can see this prediction at Tomer Devorah's new blog - Geula Messages - from Parshat Ki Tisa (emphasis mine):

Every earthquake that passed over us was only preparation and introduction to open the big one - for the severe quake and great shaking in the world. The floods will be in places where man doesn't believe that there will be floods. Volcanic eruptions will be very severe. People will see in the media hard things that the eye of man will not be able to tolerate. Snows, rains, severe winds; the tsunami in readiness for many places; everything in stages and in it's proper time. All this HKB"H is doing for the sake of the Jews. The hatred for Jews all over the world strengthens from day to day. They won't be allowed to earn a living with honor. They will be injured in their stores, in restaurants, in coffee shops so that the Jews will come to Eretz Yisrael. The worldwide economy will go and die out in very place and Eretz Yisrael will flourish and develop without end. All of this is happening because of the redemption and revelation of Melech HaMashiach in our days.

The Mashiach is here among us. He is the final designated one from the beginning of the world and is here, existing and operating. There is no other time period that he will come, this is the period and this is the time to reveal Melech HaMashiach. HKB"H is shaking the whole world; shaking every one; shaking every Jew and Jewess in Am Yisrael and in the whole world so that everyone will declare: "His Name is One and He is One and there is nothing except for Him. He is the King of all kings, HaKadosh Baruch Hu."
So too Shirat Devorah, though she is more circumspect with her caveat:
, and it certainly seems as if Rabbi ben Artzi did predict/"see" an earthquake/tsunami, although he did not state where it was occurring (see here)
The reasons that Nir ben Artzi's words do not constitute a prediction share much in common with the requirement for the ot, the sign, used to establish a navi as a navi emet or, if the sign fails, to establish him as a navi sheker. This does NOT MEAN that I am labeling him in this particular post as a navi sheker or navi emet. I want to save that discussion for a separate post. What it DOES mean is that halacha recognizes the strong possibility of spurious predictions coming true by random chance, and thus imposed requirements on the sign establishing a navi; and that we should be cognizant of the same strong possibility even if is is (purportedly) not nevuah in question.

The requirements to establish a true prophet as true may be found in the Rambam's Mishneh Torah, sefer HaMada, Hilchot Yesodei HaTorah, perek 10:

א  כָּל נָבִיא שֶׁיַּעֲמֹד לָנוּ וְיֹאמַר שֶׁה' שְׁלָחוֹ, אֵינוּ צָרִיךְ לַעֲשׂוֹת אוֹת כְּאֶחָד מֵאוֹתוֹת מֹשֶׁה רַבֵּנוּ אוֹ כְּאוֹתוֹת אֵלִיָּהוּ וֶאֱלִישָׁע, שֶׁיֵּשׁ בָּהֶן שִׁנּוּי מִנְהָגוֹ שֶׁלָּעוֹלָם; אֵלָא הָאוֹת שֶׁלּוֹ שֶׁיֹּאמַר דְּבָרִים הָעֲתִידִין לִהְיוֹת בָּעוֹלָם, וְיֵאָמְנוּ דְּבָרָיו, שֶׁנֶּאֱמָר "וְכִי תֹאמַר, בִּלְבָבֶךָ:  אֵיכָה נֵדַע אֶת-הַדָּבָר . . ." (דברים יח,כא). 

ב  לְפִיכָּךְ כְּשֶׁיָּבוֹא אָדָם הָרָאוּי לַנְּבוּאָה בְּמַלְאֲכוּת ה', וְלֹא יָבוֹא לְהוֹסִיף וְלֹא לִגְרֹעַ, אֵלָא לַעֲבֹד אֶת ה' בְּמִצְווֹת הַתּוֹרָה--אֵין אוֹמְרִין לוֹ קְרַע לָנוּ אֶת הַיָּם אוֹ הַחֲיֵה מֵת וְכַיּוֹצֶא בְּאֵלּוּ, וְאַחַר כָּךְ נַאֲמִין בָּךְ.  אֵלָא אוֹמְרִין לוֹ, אִם נָבִיא אַתָּה, אֱמֹר לָנוּ דְּבָרִים הָעֲתִידִין לִהְיוֹת; וְהוּא אוֹמֵר, וְאָנוּ מְחַכִּים לוֹ לִרְאוֹת הֲיָבוֹאוּ דְּבָרָיו:  אִם לֹא יָבוֹאוּ, וְאַפִלּוּ נָפַל דָּבָר אֶחָד קָטָן--בַּיָּדוּעַ שְׁהוּא נְבִיא שֶׁקֶר. 

ג  וְאִם בָּאוּ דְּבָרָיו כֻּלָּם, יִהְיֶה בְּעֵינֵינוּ נֶאֱמָן.  [ב] וּבוֹדְקִין אוֹתוֹ פְּעָמִים הַרְבֵּה.  אִם נִמְצְאוּ דְּבָרָיו כֻּלָּם נֶאֱמָנִין, הֲרֵי זֶה נְבִיא אֱמֶת, כְּמוֹ שֶׁנֶּאֱמָר בִּשְׁמוּאֵל, "וַיֵּדַע, כָּל-יִשְׂרָאֵל, מִדָּן, וְעַד-בְּאֵר שָׁבַע:  כִּי נֶאֱמָן שְׁמוּאֵל, לְנָבִיא לַה'" (שמואל א ג,כ). 

ד  [ג] וַהֲלוֹא הַמְּעוֹנְנִים וְהַקּוֹסְמִים אוֹמְרִין מַה עֲתִיד לִהְיוֹת, וּמַה הֶפְרֵשׁ בֵּין הַנָּבִיא וּבֵינָם--אֵלָא שֶׁהַמְּעוֹנְנִים וְהַקּוֹסְמִים וְכַיּוֹצֶא בָּהֶן, מִקְצַת דִּבְרֵיהֶן מִתְקַיְּמִין וּמִקְצָתָן אֵין מִתְקַיְּמִין:  כְּעִנְיַן שֶׁנֶּאֱמָר "יַעַמְדוּ-נָא וְיוֹשִׁיעֻךְ הֹבְרֵי שָׁמַיִם, הַחֹזִים בַּכּוֹכָבִים, מוֹדִעִים לֶחֳדָשִׁים, מֵאֲשֶׁר יָבֹאוּ עָלָיִךְ" (ישעיהו מז,יג)--"מֵאֲשֶׁר", וְלֹא כָּל אֲשֶׁר.  וְאִפְשָׁר שֶׁלֹּא יִתְקַיַּם מִדִּבְרֵיהֶם כְּלוּם, אֵלָא יִטְעוּ בַּכֹּל, כְּעִנְיַן שֶׁנֶּאֱמָר "מֵפֵר אֹתוֹת בַּדִּים, וְקֹסְמִים יְהוֹלֵל" (ישעיהו מד,כה). 

ה  אֲבָל הַנָּבִיא--כָּל דְּבָרָיו קַיָּמִין, שֶׁנֶּאֱמָר "כִּי לֹא יִפֹּל מִדְּבַר ה' אַרְצָה" (מלכים ב י,י).  וְכֵן הוּא אוֹמֵר "הַנָּבִיא אֲשֶׁר-אִתּוֹ חֲלוֹם, יְסַפֵּר חֲלוֹם, וַאֲשֶׁר דְּבָרִי אִתּוֹ, יְדַבֵּר דְּבָרִי אֱמֶת:  מַה-לַתֶּבֶן אֶת-הַבָּר, נְאֻם-ה'" (ירמיהו כג,כח)--כְּלוֹמַר שֶׁדִּבְרֵי הַקּוֹסְמִים וְהַחֲלוֹמוֹת כְּתֶבֶן שֶׁנִּתְעָרַב בּוֹ מְעַט בָּר, וּדְבַר ה' כַּבָּר שְׁאֵין בּוֹ תֶּבֶן כְּלָל.

That is, he needs to make a prediction, giving specific information about the future:
אֵלָא אוֹמְרִין לוֹ, אִם נָבִיא אַתָּה, אֱמֹר לָנוּ דְּבָרִים הָעֲתִידִין לִהְיוֹת; וְהוּא אוֹמֵר, וְאָנוּ מְחַכִּים לוֹ לִרְאוֹת הֲיָבוֹאוּ דְּבָרָיו:  אִם לֹא יָבוֹאוּ, וְאַפִלּוּ נָפַל דָּבָר אֶחָד קָטָן--בַּיָּדוּעַ שְׁהוּא נְבִיא שֶׁקֶר
We wait to see if they come true. If they do not, even if one aspect does not come true, it is known that he is a navi sheker. Meanwhile, meonenim and kosemim make predictions, some of which come true, but the difference is that:
אֵלָא שֶׁהַמְּעוֹנְנִים וְהַקּוֹסְמִים וְכַיּוֹצֶא בָּהֶן, מִקְצַת דִּבְרֵיהֶן מִתְקַיְּמִין וּמִקְצָתָן אֵין מִתְקַיְּמִין
some of their words come true and some do not.

I would spell this out in a different way. Make enough vague predictions, and by random chance, some will come true. A navi emes to establish himself should provide a prediction with a specific time or time-frame, make specific predictions, and there should be no kvetch. And even then, it might have been a fluke, so the people can test him repeatedly, and he must be consistently specific and accurate.

Maybe, if Nir ben Artzi, is not trying to be a prophet, he should not be judged by these standards; and perhaps one could say that since he is making negative predictions, Hashem can change His mind as people do teshuvah. This may well be the case, but if so, this is not a way of proving that his predictions that do come true are real predictions. At the most, one cannot establish him one way or the other.

But I would like to evaluate delusional tractor driver Nir ben Artzi's predictions in terms of specificity,  accuracy, and precision.

1) Did Nir ben Artzi say that on date X, in place Y, there would be a tsunami? This is what he said, bolding from Yeranen Yaakov:
Every earthquake that passed over us was only preparation and introduction to open the big one - for the severe quake and great shaking in the world. The floods will be in places where man doesn't believe that there will be floods. Volcanic eruptions will be very severe. People will see in the media hard things that the eye of man will not be able to tolerate. Snows, rains, severe winds; the tsunami in readiness for many places; everything in stages and in it's proper time.
"Floods in places man does not believe there will be floods". This is not necessarily associated with the quake / tsunami. Do people really believe there would be no floods in Japan? Here is a news item from 2010, just one year ago:
Japan too has been hit by devastating floods in the northern Kyushu and Chugoku regions.
So, all he said was "places man does not believe there will be floods". Not "Japan". How many countries are there in the world? How many countries, had they been hit with floods, could you have applied this incredibly vague statement to? Be really honest with yourselves, those who are applying this to Japan, whether you would have applied the same to 100 other countries.

And when was this to occur? He did not state. And so, it could be the next day, it could be the next year, it could be the next decade.

So too,
People will see in the media hard things that the eye of man will not be able to tolerate.
Be honest, and ask how many things could have happened that this would apply to.
This thus fails the test of specificity.

2) Did every detail come true, or is this parallel to Rambam's description of meonenim and kosmim? Let us see these predictions again, but I will reverse Yeranen Yaakov's bolding:
Every earthquake that passed over us was only preparation and introduction to open the big one - for the severe quake and great shaking in the world. The floods will be in places where man doesn't believe that there will be floods. Volcanic eruptions will be very severe. People will see in the media hard things that the eye of man will not be able to tolerate. Snows, rains, severe winds; the tsunami in readiness for many places; everything in stages and in it's proper time. All this HKB"H is doing for the sake of the Jews. The hatred for Jews all over the world strengthens from day to day. They won't be allowed to earn a living with honor. They will be injured in their stores, in restaurants, in coffee shops so that the Jews will come to Eretz Yisrael. The worldwide economy will go and die out in very place and Eretz Yisrael will flourish and develop without end. All of this is happening because of the redemption and revelation of Melech HaMashiach in our days.
How many of the bolded items which I bolded came true? Did the tsunami hit many places, or just Japan? Are Jews now suddenly oppressed in the way he describes? Are there severe volcanic eruptions -- which was what was really associated with seeing intolerable things in the media.

And this is only in the one prediction for that week, Ki Tisa. This lunatic predicts dire things every week. For example, that they will attack synagogues such that our Sifrei Torah are in danger. How many of those predictions came true?

Yes, if you make 1000 vague predictions, eventually one or two will come true, or true enough that your followers will believe that they came true. But we are talking about an accuracy rate of about 0.02%. If there was a contest of marksmanship, and I took a submachine gun and sprayed bullets all over the room, such that out of 20,000 bullets, one accidentally hit the target, but all the others missed, would you say I was an expert marksman? The same is true for Nir ben Artzi.

As such, I am not impressed with Nir's predictive powers. I would indeed have been surprised if none of his predictions came true, because he predicts so much, and so much is going on in the world.

See my similar remarks, by the way, about the Tsunami Kabbalist, Rabbi Shimon Dahan.

32 comments:

Yonatan said...

This will be my last post about this on your blog. The tsunami hit in Hawaii and on the west coast of the US. 4 people were dragged out and drowned in the US from it. Obviously it was much worse in Japan, but it was of such magnitude that it affected both sides of the Pacific.

Nitpick all you want about his predictions. The predictions about financial issues are about to be hit from an unexpected place from the tsunami also. The insurers are not going to be able to handle this and the US is not going to be able to afford to keep it propped up for much longer. You can only print money for so long. When this happens, more bad things are obviously in store. You don't have to be a navi to see this. You do have to have your eyes open though.

Yonatan said...

PS - I just read your comment from the prior post. You make sense in a lot of what you say. I certainly don't mean for someone to go into panic mode to move to Israel. However, I feel we are quite a bit further along in the process than we were 2 years ago and that being said - I really can see a scenario where the entire financial house of cards just collapses. It is potentially today or a couple years from now. Either way the planning phase of a move to Israel takes a lot of time and thought. We went 2 years from deciding to moving.

Take care

Moshe said...

Josh-

I actually think it is important that you write a post explaining that Nir Ben Artzi actually might be a Navi Sheker (if he claims to be a navi), as numerous of his "prophecies" (specifically relating to the disengagement plan of Sharon and the future prime ministers of Israel) were proven without the slightest shade of doubt to be false.

If a prophet is found to tell falsehood - even once - he is a navi sheker.

Devorah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
joshwaxman said...

Yonatan:
thanks; although Rambam might consider this nitpicking to be the וְאַפִלּוּ נָפַל דָּבָר אֶחָד קָטָן.

Moshe:
indeed, though he might escape the official designation of being PROVED to be one, if he does not explicitly claim to be a prophet or if his predictions are all for woe. still, i think there is what to be said, and he may still have the status. i indeed do have a post planned.

kt,
josh

zdub said...

I'm tired about hearing about Nir Ben Artzi, but still think that it is important to expose this charlatan/scan artist. So keep it up!

Rabbi Joshua Maroof said...

It is reminiscent of this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

Devorah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

josh you might be right or not but sometimes u make me want to throw up relax dude no need to tear anybodys throat out

Anonymous said...

Your obsession with this is a disgrace to the semicha you have been accredited with by YU. I suggest you drop this until you do further damage to YU's Semicha program.

joshwaxman said...

Anonymous:
ah, yes. try to find some pressure point to shut someone up, and cast it as friendly advice. and do it anonymously. excellent!

it is a disgrace IN YOUR OPINION. really, analyzing whether someone has made a prophetic assertion in light of the Rambam is a disgrace to the semicha program? so be it.

I suppose Rav Eliyahu Bakshi Doron's opposition to Nir ben Artzi is also a disgrace? How about Rav Shmuel Tal's? How about Rav Yigal Kaminetsky? How about Rav Yosef Kapach? How about Rav Shlomo Aviner. All these rabbis, an utter disgrace! Someone ought to inform them of this.

Devorah:
thanks, and thanks for the clarification. bli neder, i have another post on the queue about that specific Nir ben Artzi claim.

kol tuv,
josh

Anonymous said...

The Definition of Lashon Hara

Lashon Hara is any derogatory or damaging statement against an individual. In Hilchot Deot 7:5, Maimonides supplies a litmus test for determining whether something is or isn't Lashon Hara:

Anything which, if it would be publicized, would cause the subject physical or monetary damage, or would cause him anguish or fear, is Lashon Hara.

http://www.torah.org/learning/halashon/review1.html

Anonymous said...

I didn't say you couldn't disagree. I was referring to your obsession with this. But clearly you seem to read into one's words what you want as you seem to do with many other things on your blog. In other words stick to the parsha and let the big boys battle this out.

joshwaxman said...

In other words, shut up while Tomer Devorah promotes this fellow as a true predictor of apocalyptic events, and Kikar Shabbat similarly promotes this guy. All these people I mentioned are not being active in opposing this at the moment.

No. I am going to continue posting about this, so that people know more about this fellow and how to evaluate his "predictions".

You should be ashamed of yourself. But you probably think that you are being a big tzaddik here. You did not answer, BTW, just how you are different than me. I'll repost my comment from the other post, under the assumption that you are the same Anonymous:

Anonymous A:

"3. The only reason I read your blog is to remind your other readers to guard themselves against writing derogatory words about other Jews."

Wow, you mean in order to write derogatory things about me (e.g. that I am "obsessed")? How is this different from MY reading the words of the insane tractor driver in order to remind readers to guard themselves from falling into his cult / false messianism?

The fact is, we both agree that there are things in this world to warn other people about. If "Rabbi" Elior Chen was still operating, as a danger to society, I would hope you would also see fit to warn the gullible public who would fall into his dangerous cult. No?

It is then just a matter of deciding what merits warning the public about. You presumably think that "Rabbi" Nir ben Artzi is the real deal, has ruach hakodesh, and is the harbinger of mashiach. If so, it is WRONG to falsely warn the public against him. But if I disagree with this premise, can you see how I could differ with your conclusion?

kol tuv,
josh

joshwaxman said...

definition:
Wow, thanks for the elementary school definition of Lashon Hara! I was going to warn people about that child molester in the high school, but now I know that I should shut up! Thanks!

All generalizations are false, including this one.

For example, what precisely am I "publicizing" here, that is not already common knowledge? I was rather *analyzing* public statements, and referring to known facts made in a TV documentary. And sometimes there is toeles. Instead of assuming that you can cite a halacha out of context and know absolutely how to apply it, in order to shut someone else, how about applying a bit of sechel? Could is REALLY be the case that people can *promote* a false messiah while others are *prohibited* from opposing him?! This is not true! But if you have an unsophisticated knowledge of halacha, then you overapply to places where it is WRONG to apply it.

Devorah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Josh, you need to drop this subject and try to move on. It's embarrassing how you keep at this. Isn't there enough to blog about?

joshwaxman said...

are you the same Anonymous, as before? posting as Anonymous, rather than choosing a pseudonym and sticking to it, makes me wonder if I am dealing with one person or several.

this IS a different subject. before, I was discussing whether he had ordination. Now I am discussing whether he predicted the tsunami.

there is plenty to blog about, baruch Hashem. but there are reasons to continue posting about Nir ben Artzi. here is but one example, from the comment thread at Shirat Devorah:

Again, the down side of the running out of time scenario (at least in my case) is that it causes me to despair and as we all know there is no room for despair in this world. I become irritable and snappy (kids NOT impressed) and I am NOT happy which is a mitzvah i strive to do. My husband and I have spent two days crying over our brothers murder in Itamar and when I remember the coming doom I continue crying. I am stuck in chutzla aretz with a family and all i see when I close my eyes are tsunmis in my street and Chas ve shalom my community been murdered by arabs. It is not condusive to me or mine and even though I do not doubt that all this is happening(hence my hysteria) please also some chisuk and hope!!!

This poor woman, being driven to hysteria!

kol tuv,
josh

תלמיד אנונימי said...

Do you call RABBIE DAHAN SHLITA a JEW SHED??
If you will be able ever getting his feet than you can talk about his torah,
otherwise silence is better for you,MR JOSH

my opinion for You and kind of peopople and for you mr JOSH is to listen to
RAV DAHAN'S torah lectures weekly.
http://ravshimondahanshlita.blogspot.com/
and not wasting time on foolish opinions about tzadikim

purim samech
kol tuv
anonymstu@gmail.com

joshwaxman said...

huh? is this a Purim joke? what is a "Jew shed"?

confused,
josh

תלמיד אנונימי said...

by your jokes on tzadikim you taking a big risk,
you can call it a purim mask but pls
don't take it off from you,
you talking as a clown when you talk on tzadikim's opinions,
it seems like your hobby is to act like that either, not only in purim,
but who knows your suffers nor pains?!?...
anyway
all the best MR JOSH
אשר ישלטו היהודים המה בשונאיהם...

joshua minz said...

this is it josh youve forced me to come out the gloves are off
hmmmmm what can i say to a litvak who doesnt even believe in the authenticity of the zohar and by doing so rejects all the great kabbalists nir artzi aside u litvaks love the ramchal so but did u know he lived and breathed the zohar hakadosh why i bring this up is because u have a maskon and if u dont belive in the sod of the torah there is room to cal u .......... well i dont want to say so do us both a favor waxman go back to your gemara bec at least ull be doing a mitzvah
kol tov joshua minz

joshwaxman said...

talmid:
i think you don't know English. "Jew Shed" does not mean anything intelligible in English. rabbi shimon dahan is beside the point of this post, though i must say that i AM unimpressed by his "predictions", for the same reasons. instead of attacking me personally, why not attack the logic and show why it is wrong.

joshua mintz:
if that is your real name; you call me "waxman" and write without regard to punctuation, reminiscent of 'orthodoxjew'. i think it is telling that you try to undermine me with irrelevant side-points. why not explain why i am wrong with regard to *Nir ben Artzi*'s (or for that matter, Rabbi Shimon Dahan's) shotgunning? Or, if you MUST bring up the Zohar, explain why you think Rav Yaakov Emden's proof are wrong?

--josh

Anonymous said...

Today's "Anonymous" is not the same as yesterday's, but why should it matter? The fact is, folks are trying to tell you that there are other things to write about. Several rabbis now talk and write how great changes in the world, the natural disasters, the revolutions and failing economies are all messages from the Ribbono shel Olam to Am Yisroel to do tshuva! Read the new message from the Autists in Dani18.com Jews, it's erev Purim! Wake up, think about what all this means and rejoice that the time of our Geulah is coming closer! Josh, use your parashablog to write about doing more chessed, giving more tzedakkah, improving our middos and serving HaShem with love.

joshwaxman said...

first, because I happen to run this blog and expressly request that people at least choose a pseudonym. Immediately above the comment form is the sentence:
"If you choose to comment anonymously, please choose a pseudonym."

second, because i, who bravely reveal my true identity, am the one being insulted often by these anonymous commenters, and i would like to know if it is one person haranguing me of a crowd of people.

third, because i like to carry on conversations with individuals -- not crowds or mobs -- from beginning to end. i would like to put remarks in context of previous remarks made by that same person, and want to know if previous point *I* made were heard by the individual I am speaking to, or whether I need to start from scratch.

the autistics are unfortunately individuals being exploited by delusional people. facilitated communication is not real, especially not in the way they are doing it. in terms of the several rabbis, we have to consider each in turn. do you mean Rabbi Eliezer Berland, who falsely told his chassidim two years ago that it would be the last time they would visit Uman? do you mean Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak, who also falsely predicted a ketz for mashiach's arrival two years ago? do you mean Rabbi Shimon Dahan, the Tsunami Kabbalist, who deliberately or accidentally engages in the same shotgunning tricks as Nir ben Artzi. Do you mean the ones promoting an Iyar this year ketz? We'll have to wait a short while and see.

kol tuv,
josh

E-Man said...

I am shocked that there are so many people that are telling you to stop writing about this subject. They are trying to silence criticism of a "prophet." Why do people buy into this nonsense. I will believe the Moshiach is here when I SEE HIM. There have been MANY natural disasters throughout the centuries, the Moshiach still ain't here, so what do natural disasters actually have to do with anything?

Just because different books talk about disasters occurring in the time of Moshiach doesn't mean those predictions are correct. The time of Moshiach is hidden and people have only guessed at what it will be like. The Gemara in Sanhedrin has a million conflicting ideas of what the time of Moshiach will be like. Truth is, no one knows.

However, there have been MANY FALSE MESSIAHS that have lead Jews astray and they are very dangerous. I find no harm in what Rabbi Waxman is doing. In fact, I think it is great to try and expose people who are false. If he is true, then let people bring proof that he is a real prophet or someone who really talks to G-D. The Rambam's qualifications are right there for anyone to read, come on and prove that this guy is the real deal, otherwise, stop telling Rabbi Waxman to shut up, it is really annoying! You bring no arguments and just tell himi to stop talking, what is wrong with YOU, not him.

mifla said...

This instantly playing English audio link http://www.zshare.net/audio/8785253308f100f5/ by a Kabbalist highly critical of R.Nir Ben Artzi, even comparing him to Bilom and Armilus, warrants a response!

joshwaxman said...

thanks.
that requires installing a program / codec, and as per this, it has a virus attached to us.

i don't know if you are legit and just happened across this site by accident (or equivalently, i am wrong in evaluating this), or if you are an ill-wisher trying to destroy my computer because you think i am an evil person spreading Lashon Hara about your cult leader.

if the former, please give me the name of the kabbalist and a quote of what he says, so that we can evaluate it. but please, people reading this, don't install that software!

kol tuv,
josh

mifla said...

It is a straightforward instantly playing "zshare" audio-share file that plays instantly & OK & is virus free(for me anyway!)http://www.zshare.net/audio/8785253308f100f5/

The Kabbalist on it says:

"Wednesday March 16 2011.We know that the goyim come from Zeira Illa which is a future reality, and that a goy descends passing through this world making it
eternal.The Jew comes from the past and continues to the present in an ever ascent to HKBH.Thus Ben Artzi right now is a Jew and he will descend and disintegrate in to a goy called "Bilom".Thus where Bilom made his nevuah of the future,it was in the past tense says Rashi,because Ben Artzi made the nevua as a witness in the future what he saw,and passed the information to himself on a previous date,not in gilgul.A goy passes through the world,"just passing through";the world is eternal from the perspective of a goy.Literally without beginning or end,from the perspective of scientific analysis of goyishe reality.For the Jew it started 5771years ago and will continue until HKBH.The Jew started with Adam Harishon and continues to ascend to HKBH.The goy comes from Ze'ira Illa on the level of malach and will descend and disintegrate endlessly through time backwards. Thus Ben Artzi is the future Bilom,and Bilom is basically a degraded Ben Artzi.Thus Bilom prophecised "a star shot forth". Why in the past tense?Because he already saw it as Ben Artzi.Ben Artzi effectively lives in a world of Hollywood.We have a blue screen and a backdrop.It's as if the blue screen is not uploaded to Ben Artzi's backdrop.He sees the world of ARMILUS,the world of Bilom.He sees everything going on and Bilom becomes the goy which is Erev Rav without Erev Rav.Ben Artzi became Bilom became "shesum ayin" which is why he closes his eyes tightly when he speaks.On that level he is giving over what he already saw in his future self,as a 'past tense scenario'."A star shot forth"-look to Ben Artzi,in conjunction to what's going on in Korea as a side note.Look to Ben Artzi to start to quote Bamidbar 24:17 darach kokav m'yaakov vkam shevet m'yisrael- "I shall see him but not now,I view it but not near".

joshwaxman said...

thanks; i'll try it again from a different computer. on your side, it might be a good idea to run your anti-spyware / anti-virus software.

who is this kabbalist? not precisely my cup of tea, and it seems to attribute way more importance to Nir ben Artzi than he is worth, in the opposite direction... that's my reaction to it, at least.

thanks,
josh

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Josh: He wasn't a tractor driver, but a "tractorone" driver (like a dune buggy)

joshwaxman said...

thanks; i'll keep it in mind. 'delusional tractorone driver' doesn't roll of the tongue as well, though...

:)

kt,
josh

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