I just started more seriously learning through Pesachim, this time around, for Daf Yomi. Eruvin was a killer, but I just finished that. So I am about 50 blatt behind.
I checked out the Artscroll app. It is nice. I like how I can focus just on the tzuras hadaf and read it, and just when I want to double-check that I have the nukkud right, or that I am translating it for myself correctly, I touch the word or phrase and phrase and see the pop-up. I also like how, when I click on a word of phrase, it will highlight for me the associated Rashi and Tosafot, and that when I click on a Tosafot, it will highlight the relevant section of gemara. I just clicked on a Rashi, and it highlighted the associated gemara as well as a Gilyon HaShas on that Rashi. Very need, and it will hopefully encourage users to stay on the actual daf.
Anyway, here is something on Pesachim 2a. I would like to respond to certain questions raised by Tosafot. The gemara is trying to advance evidence that Or means either night or day. And its first proof it this:
"They [the scholars producing the setama degemara] raised an objection [from a verse in Bereishit 44:3, about the brothers of Yosef, when they left Yosef's house, just after Yosef had commanded his steward to hide his goblet in Binyamin's sack]:
Thus, Or means day! Does it say the Or was morning? Rather, it says the morning was Or. And it is like one who says "Tzafra Nahar" [the day is light]. And this [their action?] is in accordance with Rav Yehuda citing Rav. Because Rav Yehuda cited Rav, 'a person should always enter with Ki Tov [=at Boker] and exit with Ki Tov."
The setama degemara here is referencing a statement of Rav Yehuda citing Rav which is found in Bava Kamma daf 60a-b:
Tosafot write, in Pesachim 2a, as follows:
יכנס בכי טוב. אור"י דבפרק הכונס (דף ס ושם:) משמע דטעם הוי משום מזיקין דמפיק ליה התם מלא תצאו איש מפתח ביתו וקרא משום מזיקין קא מזהיר דמפקינן מיניה התם כיון שניתן רשות למשחית וכו' ולפי זה אפילו מעירו אדם צריך ליזהר שיצא בכי טוב והא דנקט כניסה תחלה היינו משום דאורחא דגמרא למינקט הכי כמו מטפס ועולה ומטפס ויורד בפרק עושין פסין (דף כא.) דנקט עליה תחלה ובפ' במה מדליקין (דף לד:) בין השמשות כהרף עין זה נכנס וזה יוצא וקשה הא דריש רב יהודה הא דרשה גופה מקרא אחרינא דלא תצאו בפרק הכונס (דף ס. ושם:) ואומר רשב"א דצריכי תרי קראי הבקר אור צריך לעיר אחרת ואפי' היכא דליכא למיחש למזיקין כגון אחי יוסף דהוו י"א והטעם מפני הפחתים וקרא דלא תצאו איצטריך לעירו ומפני המזיקין:
I will respond to their last point first:
I must confess that what bothers Tosafot does not bother me the slightest. The pasuk in Shemot is the prooftext for Rav's statement, as we see in Bava Kamma. The pasuk in Bereishit, mentioned in our gemara in Pesachim, is not a prooftext! Indeed, Rav and Rav Yosef know nothing about this pasuk. It is the setama degemara that is trying to determine the meaning of Or and brings in this pasuk, and then references this idea of Rav Yehuda citing Rav Yosef to explain the pasuk.
The idea is that the Shevatim kept the entirety of the Torah, including Rabbinic law, and so naturally followed the statement of Rav when leaving the abode of the vizier of Egypt. In other words, why did they leave in the morning? Because of Rav. But don't then turn around and take their action as a source for Rav's rule. It is a target, not a source. And indeed, the actual source sounds like a source for an injuction, לֹא תֵצְאו.
[A peshat explanation of this might be that daytime is the proper time to start a journey, and the pasuk is informing us that they left at their earliest possible opportunity because they so desperately wanted to escape that fraught situation. And then that plan was shattered.]
Also, the Rashba explained the distinction between the two prooftexts as that one was a concern for mazikin, while the other was a concern for pits. I would like to question this assumption, at the same time that I question the first part of Tosafot:
However, I do not believe that this reading can sustain a careful examination of the sugya in Bava Kamma 60a-b. The gemara there reads:
Furthermore, what is the "Mashchis" of Rav Yosef? He is connecting to the peshat meaning of the pasuk, where there was a destructive force wiping out the Egyptian firstborn. That destructive force was either an angel from Hashem, or else Hashem Himself. And despite the target being the Egyptian firstborn, the Israelites were commanded to stay inside, lest they be harmed as well. The "Mashchis", "Destroyer", of the pasuk is not a sheid, a demon.
And Rav Yosef is extrapolating from this case to general cases where the Mashchis has been given authority to act. This, again, is not sheidim. Think instead of widespread disaster -- a tornado, a hurricane, pestilence. In such cases, he says, the righteous are taken along with the wicked, and even targeted first. This is a far cry from sheidim which happen to attack solitary people at night. So, one should not extrapolate from Rav Yosef's mention of a Mashchis to the conclusion that Rav was speaking about sheidim.
However, as I wrote above, this does not rule out shedim. After all, who says that there is any semantic connection between Rav and Rav Yosef, further than that they are interpreting the same pasuk? Indeed, Rashi there explains that Rav Yosef's concern includes shedim:
Because of mazikin and robbers. But note that it is not solely demons; it is also robbers. Basically, Rashi is helpfully explaining why someone would be concerned with going out at night.
If so, the same concern can apply to Yosef's brothers, even though they number eleven.
I checked out the Artscroll app. It is nice. I like how I can focus just on the tzuras hadaf and read it, and just when I want to double-check that I have the nukkud right, or that I am translating it for myself correctly, I touch the word or phrase and phrase and see the pop-up. I also like how, when I click on a word of phrase, it will highlight for me the associated Rashi and Tosafot, and that when I click on a Tosafot, it will highlight the relevant section of gemara. I just clicked on a Rashi, and it highlighted the associated gemara as well as a Gilyon HaShas on that Rashi. Very need, and it will hopefully encourage users to stay on the actual daf.
Anyway, here is something on Pesachim 2a. I would like to respond to certain questions raised by Tosafot. The gemara is trying to advance evidence that Or means either night or day. And its first proof it this:
מיתיבי (בראשית מד, ג) הבקר אור והאנשים שולחו אלמא אור יממא הוא מי כתיב האור בקר הבקר אור כתיב כמאן דאמר צפרא נהר וכדרב יהודה אמר רב דאמר רב יהודה אמר רב לעולם יכנס אדם בכי טוב ויצא בכי טוב
"They [the scholars producing the setama degemara] raised an objection [from a verse in Bereishit 44:3, about the brothers of Yosef, when they left Yosef's house, just after Yosef had commanded his steward to hide his goblet in Binyamin's sack]:
| ג הַבֹּקֶר, אוֹר; וְהָאֲנָשִׁים שֻׁלְּחוּ, הֵמָּה וַחֲמֹרֵיהֶם. | 3 As soon as the morning was light, the men were sent away, they and their asses. |
The setama degemara here is referencing a statement of Rav Yehuda citing Rav which is found in Bava Kamma daf 60a-b:
Rab Judah stated that Rab said: A man should always enter [a town] by daytime and leave by daytime, as it say's, And none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.1The pasuk cited is in Shemot 12:22, about Makkat Bechorot:
This is either Hashem by Himself, with no shaliach, or else his angelic agents of destruction.
Tosafot write, in Pesachim 2a, as follows:
יכנס בכי טוב. אור"י דבפרק הכונס (דף ס ושם:) משמע דטעם הוי משום מזיקין דמפיק ליה התם מלא תצאו איש מפתח ביתו וקרא משום מזיקין קא מזהיר דמפקינן מיניה התם כיון שניתן רשות למשחית וכו' ולפי זה אפילו מעירו אדם צריך ליזהר שיצא בכי טוב והא דנקט כניסה תחלה היינו משום דאורחא דגמרא למינקט הכי כמו מטפס ועולה ומטפס ויורד בפרק עושין פסין (דף כא.) דנקט עליה תחלה ובפ' במה מדליקין (דף לד:) בין השמשות כהרף עין זה נכנס וזה יוצא וקשה הא דריש רב יהודה הא דרשה גופה מקרא אחרינא דלא תצאו בפרק הכונס (דף ס. ושם:) ואומר רשב"א דצריכי תרי קראי הבקר אור צריך לעיר אחרת ואפי' היכא דליכא למיחש למזיקין כגון אחי יוסף דהוו י"א והטעם מפני הפחתים וקרא דלא תצאו איצטריך לעירו ומפני המזיקין:
I will respond to their last point first:
"And it is difficult, that Rav Yehuda [citing Rav] darshens this derasha itself from a different pasuk, namely that [of Makkat Bechorot, in Shemot] of לֹא תֵצְאו, in perek HaKones [daf 60a]. And Rashba says that we need both verses, that of [Bereishit, Yosef's brothers] because of [going to] another city, such that it is even where one need not worry about mazikin [demons, evil spirits], such as the brothers of Yosef, who numbered 11, and the reason is because of the pits. Meanwhile, the verse refers to his own city {Josh: perhaps since one need not fear pits}, and because of the evil spirits."וקשה הא דריש רב יהודה הא דרשה גופה מקרא אחרינא דלא תצאו בפרק הכונס (דף ס. ושם:) ואומר רשב"א דצריכי תרי קראי הבקר אור צריך לעיר אחרת ואפי' היכא דליכא למיחש למזיקין כגון אחי יוסף דהוו י"א והטעם מפני הפחתים וקרא דלא תצאו איצטריך לעירו ומפני המזיקין:
I must confess that what bothers Tosafot does not bother me the slightest. The pasuk in Shemot is the prooftext for Rav's statement, as we see in Bava Kamma. The pasuk in Bereishit, mentioned in our gemara in Pesachim, is not a prooftext! Indeed, Rav and Rav Yosef know nothing about this pasuk. It is the setama degemara that is trying to determine the meaning of Or and brings in this pasuk, and then references this idea of Rav Yehuda citing Rav Yosef to explain the pasuk.
The idea is that the Shevatim kept the entirety of the Torah, including Rabbinic law, and so naturally followed the statement of Rav when leaving the abode of the vizier of Egypt. In other words, why did they leave in the morning? Because of Rav. But don't then turn around and take their action as a source for Rav's rule. It is a target, not a source. And indeed, the actual source sounds like a source for an injuction, לֹא תֵצְאו.
[A peshat explanation of this might be that daytime is the proper time to start a journey, and the pasuk is informing us that they left at their earliest possible opportunity because they so desperately wanted to escape that fraught situation. And then that plan was shattered.]
Also, the Rashba explained the distinction between the two prooftexts as that one was a concern for mazikin, while the other was a concern for pits. I would like to question this assumption, at the same time that I question the first part of Tosafot:
אור"י דבפרק הכונס (דף ס ושם:) משמע דטעם הוי משום מזיקין דמפיק ליה התם מלא תצאו איש מפתח ביתו וקרא משום מזיקין קא מזהיר דמפקינן מיניה התם כיון שניתן רשות למשחית"The Ri said that in perek HaKones [Bava Kamma 60a-b] it imples that the reason is because of demons, because they derive it there from [the pasuk in Shemot] לֹא תֵצְאוּ אִישׁ מִפֶּתַח-בֵּיתוֹ, and that verse is because of mazikin that it warns, for we derive from it there [in Bava Kamma immediately above], 'once permission was given to the [Mashchis] Destroyer...'"
However, I do not believe that this reading can sustain a careful examination of the sugya in Bava Kamma 60a-b. The gemara there reads:
תאני רב יוסף מאי דכתיב (שמות יב, כב) ואתם לא תצאו איש מפתח ביתו עד בקר כיון שניתן רשות למשחית אינו מבחין בין צדיקים לרשעים ולא עוד אלא שמתחיל מן הצדיקים תחלה שנאמר (יחזקאל כא, ח) והכרתי ממך צדיק ורשע בכי רב יוסף כולי האי נמי לאין דומין א"ל אביי טיבותא הוא לגבייהו דכתיב (ישעיהו נז, א) כי מפני הרעה נאסף הצדיק
אמר רב יהודה אמר רב לעולם יכנס אדם בכי טוב ויצא בכי טוב שנאמר (שמות יב, כב) ואתם לא תצאו איש מפתח ביתו עד בקר
ת"ר דבר בעיר כנס רגליך שנאמר ואתם לא תצאו איש מפתח ביתו עד בקר ואומר (ישעיהו כו, כ) לך עמי בא בחדריך וסגור דלתיך בעדך ואומר (דברים לב, כה) מחוץ תשכל חרב ומחדרים אימה
R. Joseph learnt: What is the meaning of the verse, And none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning?24 Once permission has been granted to the Destroyer, he does not distinguish between righteous and wicked. Moreover, he even begins with the righteous at the very outset, as it says:25 And I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.26 R. Joseph wept at this, saying: So much are they27 compared to nothing!28 But Abaye [consoling him,] said: This is for their advantage, as it is written, That the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.29
Rab Judah stated that Rab said: A man should always enter [a town] by daytime and leave by daytime, as it say's, And none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.1There are thus three different sources which interpret the pasuk ואתם לא תצאו איש מפתח ביתו עד בקר. There is Rav Yosef, Rav Yehuda citing Rav, and the brayta. Though they are juxtaposed because of interpreting the same pasuk, that does not prove that they are speaking about the same topic, namely the Mashchis.
Our Rabbis taught: When there is an epidemic in the town keep your feet inside [the house], as it says, And none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning,1 and it further says, Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers and shut thy doors about thee;2 and it is again said: The sword without, the terror within shall destroy.3 Why these further citations? — Lest you might think that the advice given above4 refers only to the night, but not to the day. Therefore, come and hear: Come, my people, enter thou into thy chamber, and shut thy doors about thee.5 And should you say that these apprehensions apply only where there is no terror inside,6 whereas where there is terror inside6 it is much better to go out and sit among people in one company, again come and hear: The sword without, the terror within shall destroy,3 implying that [even where] the terror is'within'6 the 'sword'7 will destroy [more] without. In the time of an epidemic Raba used to keep the windows shut, as it is written, For death is come up into our windows.8
Furthermore, what is the "Mashchis" of Rav Yosef? He is connecting to the peshat meaning of the pasuk, where there was a destructive force wiping out the Egyptian firstborn. That destructive force was either an angel from Hashem, or else Hashem Himself. And despite the target being the Egyptian firstborn, the Israelites were commanded to stay inside, lest they be harmed as well. The "Mashchis", "Destroyer", of the pasuk is not a sheid, a demon.
And Rav Yosef is extrapolating from this case to general cases where the Mashchis has been given authority to act. This, again, is not sheidim. Think instead of widespread disaster -- a tornado, a hurricane, pestilence. In such cases, he says, the righteous are taken along with the wicked, and even targeted first. This is a far cry from sheidim which happen to attack solitary people at night. So, one should not extrapolate from Rav Yosef's mention of a Mashchis to the conclusion that Rav was speaking about sheidim.
However, as I wrote above, this does not rule out shedim. After all, who says that there is any semantic connection between Rav and Rav Yosef, further than that they are interpreting the same pasuk? Indeed, Rashi there explains that Rav Yosef's concern includes shedim:
בכי טוב - בעוד חמה זורחת ילין במלון ולא ימתין עד שתחשך ולבקר לא ישכים לצאת עד שיאיר כי טוב לישנא מעליא האור כי טוב כלומר טוב הוא לצאת בו וליכנס בו מפני המזיקין והליסטין:
Because of mazikin and robbers. But note that it is not solely demons; it is also robbers. Basically, Rashi is helpfully explaining why someone would be concerned with going out at night.
If so, the same concern can apply to Yosef's brothers, even though they number eleven.
1 comment:
R.Josh, can you help me with this: Come and hear: The Wain [‘Waggon’] is in the north and Scorpio is in the south, the whole of the inhabited world lies between the Wain and Scorpio. It's in Pesachim 94a. Between which latitudes is considered living world? So in North and South poles is something like dead world?
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