- Here is a roundup of some postings regarding the kol korei banning Vos Iz Neias. At Frum Follies, a discussion of it as well as testimony as to which newspaper it appeared in. Also, at the same blog, more coverage. DovBear discussing it, Hirhurim discussing it (a commenter there provides the English translation now going around), Failed Messiah discussing it, Blog in Dm discussing it. The coverage from the Five Towns Jewish Times, where they suggest a reason behind the ban. Rabbi Harry Maryles at Emes VeEmunah reacts to the ban. Matzav jumps at a chance to attack its competitor, and subsequently responds to Rabbi Maryles.
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- DovBear posts an account of genuine hachnasas orchim in the Five Towns, but the moshav leitzim there tries to shoot it down.
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- At the Seforim blog, tznius concerns causing people to change history, by modifying the coat of arms of the Rapaport family in seforim.
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- According to one study, placebos can work without deception.
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- Advice on how not to wreck a non-stick pan.
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- Life In Israel with an interesting pesak against Amen parties:
Rav Dov Lior, the Chief Rabbi of Kiryat Arba, was asked his opinion about Amen Parties. Rav Lior responded that there is no source for such a thing, and we don't find in the words and writings of Chaza"l that they held such things as Amen Meals or Amen Parties. That being the case, one should be wary and cautious of such parties, and stay away.
Rav Lior said that the passuk of "Lo Sassuru" - not turning after your own hearts desires includes not making up new ways to serve God. If it is not found in Chaza"l, one should be wary.
This is a point I've made in the past. Aside from any halachic concerns one might raise, the problem is that this is invented ritual, from people who don't find existing ritual enough. This is how folk religion develops. Even more, the gathering of women to speak a 'word of power' for its magical segulah benefits seems like the gathering of a coven of witches. Chazal said (Kiddushin 66b) said that the best of women are filled with witchcraft. I've suggested in the past that this means specifically the best of women, who are religiously motivated, and end up with their own invented rituals.
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- Life in Israel on Hamodia's dissonance, in promoting a campaign against the internet yet advertising their own free digital edition.
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- Related, the Jewish Worker wonders whether the Chareidi position is equivalent to the Amish position, given that they agree with a letter to the editor that they subscribe, in principle, to the Gedolim's position that use of technology such as computers (even without Internet) is not appropriate for children. I think the answer is that this is specifically for children, rather than adults, and that there are reasons not to want children to be tech-savvy, as they can then get around filters, or might be tempted to use the Internet, etc. They are not against technology like microwaves. Though I disagree with this, I can understand how this might be a position they espouse, without being Amish.
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- In Israel, some archaeologists claim to have found the earliest human remains, some 400,000 years old. If so, this would "change the whole picture of evolution". Not that evolution occurred, but presumably the particular development in different areas at different times, or to cite the article, the idea that Homo Sapiens started in Africa. For some scientific disciplines, it is important to recall that so much is based on reconstructions based on limited data. Bonus: A picture of Professor Gopher holding a tooth.
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- At Cross-Currents, Rabbi Yaakov Mencken calls on Rabbi Harry Maryles to apologize for condemning the frum couple who appeared on People's Court. Rabbi Maryles responds. My own inclination is to be dan lekaf zechut, even to extremes in this case (which it is not), especially in the aftermath of possibly unjustified condemnation.
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- Bad For Shidduchim on accidentally backstabbing references.
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- Here on parshablog, I treat the common mistake in thinking that Moshe Rabbenu said "Rasha! Lama Takeh Rei'echa?!"
13 comments:
>This is how folk religion develops.
I wonder if folk religion should be opposed, or the subsequent sanctification of folk religion. The former seems oppressive, and the latter reduces the grandeur (or at least the rational) in religion.
It always frustrates me when someone tries to defend a godol doing something wrong by saying they were duped by an askan who they trusted, and therefore signed or said something without conducting an investigation.
This is better?
Rather than saying they were wrong about something (c"v) - like all humans are at some point, it's somehow considered better to say they were naive, easily manipulated, and willing to give tremendous destructive power to others without gathering facts first?
Don't these defenders realize that instead of treating a godol like Moshe (who unfairly said shimu na hamorim) they are treating the godol like Achashveirosh (who gave his signet to that great askan Haman based on nothing more than his word, and didn't even bother asking the name of the nation to be destroyed?)
What kind of defense is that?
KT,
Hillel
Don't be concerned about the "ritual" of woman getting together and eating food and saying amen to everyone's brachos (which the koach of an "Amen" is takka a big thing)...The only reason it seems bad and can lead to a new religion is because the word "ritual" gets inserted in there. Don't use the word ritual and everything will be ok...You could probably find other minhagim that don't have makor in the gemorah that are "worse" than this, no?
hi. please choose a name, or pseudonym, when commenting.
"ritual" is a word i chose which i feel captures the essence. yes, probably certain minhagim over the years have crept in and been concretized as minhag. (for example, shlugging kapparos.) still, i believe my point above stands, as i stated it.
i am similarly opposed to ritual challah baking in groups of 40 women while giving money to Rabbi Meir Baal Hanes. and i am opposed to saying Shir Hashirim 40 days in a row as a magic spell to get a shidduch. and wearing a red bendle around the wrist, such that the first person you see when it breaks off is your bashert, who you are to marry. i am opposed to the superstitious casting of lead by an ayin-hara woman, which has unfortunately become practice in the frum community which does not recognize me'onen when they see it.
i could go on.
that something is unsourced at the present time is simply a good indication that it is folk religion and superstition gone wild, under the guise of frumkeit.
there is a difference between religion and superstition, IMHO.
kol tuv,
josh
also:
"(which the koach of an "Amen" is takka a big thing)"
first off, the 'koach' of an 'Amen' is not takka a big thing. the word itself does not have power, such that the more chance you get to repeat it the more power-ups you get. rather, a bracha is thanking Hashem for providing for us, and increases our gratitude to Hashem, if we reflect upon it correctly. Amen is expressing agreement to that, and affirming Hashem's kingship, etc. *Hashem* rewards us for doing mitzvos. But Amen is not a word of power, which would make it an incantation.
"Don't be concerned about the "ritual" of woman getting together and eating food and saying amen to everyone's brachos"
it depends on how one casts it. it is not a bunch of women getting together for, say, a shiur, and while there eating food. rather, it is a coven of witches who want to change nature by pronouncing this word of power. they get together and eat the food as an excuse to be able to say this "Word of Power" as many times as they can. it is an invented religious ceremony, made possible by the existence of food.
if the same women would get together to set up shidduchim for unmarried singles, or to pack food for tomchei Shabbos, or to visit the sick in hospitals, my guess is that Hashem would treat it as a greater mitzvah and that it would generate more zechuyot.
kol tuv,
josh
Hillel.The ban on vin is 100% justified,if you are a torah true jew.I have long expierence with them.The ban understated the problem,espically the filthy comments section.If apikorsim like failed meesia and leitzim like dov ber(according to the blog author) defend and go bat for them,it'ds the best sign the ban is justified.
I simply don't see how chareidim can even remotely be compared with amish.The ban on computers is not because they oppose all modern invetions,like a light bulb.But because of ruchniyous concerns.(sadly,it has ruined many kids)For example they oppose cellphones with texting but not the cell phone.Sadly enough, there are kids who "keep shabbos completly",except that they are so addicted to texting that they text een on shabbos.
the amish comment was inspired, i think, by the overly general use of the term "technology". see Mississippi Fred MacDowell's comment there.
kt,
josh
>I simply don't see how chareidim can even remotely be compared with amish.The ban on computers is not because they oppose all modern invetions,like a light bulb.But because of ruchniyous concerns.
Why do you think the Amish oppose modern technology? They oppose it for . . . ruchnius concerns.
The Amish themselves are not indiscriminately opposed to modern technology. They evaluate new technology in light of their particular spiritual beliefs and permit that which they feel doesn't contradict it.
S,don't kid around.The basically forbid everything for fear of ruchniyous.In fact,chareidim only ban and not so strict or rigidlythings which have ben proven to be harmful.
BTW,s.you don't do any favor the vin or anyoneelse if you compare them with moses of dessau.If anything you make them look bad.
>S,don't kid around.The basically forbid everything for fear of ruchniyous.In fact,chareidim only ban and not so strict or rigidlythings which have ben proven to be harmful.
It's a matter of degree. Chareidim don't share the same spiritual value with the Amish which causes the latter to forbid most modern technology, but they share the general principle that even technology is ultimately allowed or forbidden based on spiritual principles. The fact that Chareidim forbid after things become widespread may be a strength and connote careful consideration, as you have it - or it may be a weakness and proof that they are reactionary.
I would say that the chief difference between the approaches of Chareidim and the Amish is that although both seek to counter/ avoid/ shield and be shielded from the modern Western world, the Amish set up clearer walls, while Chareidi society permits more of a spectrum on the margins. To this I attribute the fact that Chareidim are part of the Jewish people, with only a miut who are so extreme that they exclude everyone else from Klal Yisrael, while the Amish don't perceive themselves as a part of a larger Christendom.
>BTW,s.you don't do any favor the vin or anyoneelse if you compare them with moses of dessau.If anything you make them look bad.
I know that. But I call it as I see it. If people who are against bans don't like being told that their hashkafa comes from Ramad, they can lump it, or change it.
I'll post bli neder on the main point later.As for your point about moses from dessau.You mean vin and the rest will leave the same "legacy" like him?That's what bothered me in your comparing things.p.s. i support the vin ban,see above.
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