tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post8800008271941714674..comments2024-03-05T21:22:43.426-05:00Comments on parshablog: A censored Sporno on Vayishlach?joshwaxmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03516171362038454070noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-82522626422257993252011-12-08T22:24:26.057-05:002011-12-08T22:24:26.057-05:00"sheva nach" = na, of course."sheva nach" = na, of course.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-33078564063386912682011-12-08T22:13:04.258-05:002011-12-08T22:13:04.258-05:00The issue concerns the fact that treating פ as raf...The issue concerns the fact that treating פ as rafeh (ph, or f) seems forced by the sheva nach from the samech. But of course ספורנו is not a Hebrew word at all. <br /><br />However, I am not sure at all what the origin of the name is. Looking in early Christian sources he is given as "Abdias Sporno," but also "Sphorno" and "Sporno." Not only that, in a letter by Johann Reuchlin himself - who was taught Hebrew by R. Ovadya Sforno - he writes the following "Abdia filio Jacobi Sphurno" (Johann Reuchlins Briefwechsel p. 92). This letter is dated 1506, when the rabbi in question was still only 30 or 31 years old, very much alive, with nearly 45 years left to go.<br /><br />However, I do know that there is a text of the medical diploma awarded to the Sforno, which was published in 1962. Presumably it is in Latin. I don't know if it spells it with a P or a PH. Perhaps with a P and this may be the source for the name. Personally, I suspect it is simply the awareness that it is *not* Hebrew, and in fact the real name seems to have began with a sheva na, which is impossible in Hebrew, while such a consonant cluster is very much possible in Italian.<br /><br />Also, the family was very real and persisted for many generations, perhaps into recent times. So it is possible that there is a living tradition of how to pronounce the name, and maybe it is "Sporno." That said, consider the Abarbanels, who have people who pronounce it Abarbanel and Abravanel (and other pronunciations besides). So family traditions aren't necessarily so strong either. I know, for example, that my own last name - which begins with an S - was pronounced /sh/ in the old country, but it became Americanized, and now it is pronounced /ss/. If I myself didn't know this, then what good would my conviction that my family name always began with an /ss/ be? Not very good at all.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-68502137248714844682011-12-08T20:52:36.692-05:002011-12-08T20:52:36.692-05:00actually, it was deliberate. iirc, i read somethin...actually, it was deliberate. iirc, i read something a few months back that this was likely how he pronounced it.joshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-5736524374953714622011-12-08T19:58:57.129-05:002011-12-08T19:58:57.129-05:00Sporno? S'typo?Sporno? S'typo?Joe in Australianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-54442656986412732592011-12-08T16:01:53.602-05:002011-12-08T16:01:53.602-05:00I second YaakI second YaakY. https://www.blogger.com/profile/00852218508652846269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-78955431383811770082011-12-08T14:28:19.359-05:002011-12-08T14:28:19.359-05:00Nice!Nice!yaakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08179304707239865515noreply@blogger.com