tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post5972131514144303736..comments2024-03-05T21:22:43.426-05:00Comments on parshablog: Westbound locusts -- was Rashi a Flat Earther?joshwaxmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03516171362038454070noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-66262030061882687512013-06-06T13:11:18.601-04:002013-06-06T13:11:18.601-04:00by the way, re: "rashi" on ta'anis, ...by the way, re: "rashi" on ta'anis, the maharatz chajes (beginning of ta'anis) points out that it is not by rashi. WFBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16065809503898121297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-40956136470534435902011-03-18T05:27:01.739-04:002011-03-18T05:27:01.739-04:00yes; i know those sources. see here for Yerushalmi...yes; i know those sources. see <a href="http://parsha.blogspot.com/2010/11/alexander-great-ball-on-plate-and-snake.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> for Yerushalmi.<br /><br />kt,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-7525654477062820012011-03-18T02:36:08.837-04:002011-03-18T02:36:08.837-04:00זוהר ויקרא דף י,אויך אין תוס' ע"ז מא. זאג...זוהר ויקרא דף י,אויך אין תוס' ע"ז מא. זאגט תוס' ככדור. שהעולם עגול כדאיתא בירושלמי שאלכסנדרוס מוקדון עלה<br />למעלה עד שראה כל העולם ככדור ואת הים כקערה פי׳ ים אוקינוס שמקיף את כל העולם:Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-15477890149671962662011-01-16T14:41:56.842-05:002011-01-16T14:41:56.842-05:00thanks; i'll check it out.thanks; i'll check it out.joshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-23978091784034642582011-01-16T10:08:53.272-05:002011-01-16T10:08:53.272-05:00Josh,
It was the Rashi Rabbi Slifkin mentions. I ...Josh,<br /><br />It was the Rashi Rabbi Slifkin mentions. I looked it up and it is an explanation of the Gemara, but it is clearly Rashi's personal thoughts on how to explain the Gemara. <br /><br />He explains a statement in the Gemara that says something to the extent of where the waters of the heavens meet the waters of the deep. Here is the exact part with soncino translation:<br /><br />א״ר אלעזר כשמנםכין את המים בחג תהום<br />אומר לחבירו אבע מימיך קול שני ריעים<br />אני שומע שנאמר 2תהום אל תהום קורא<br />לקול צנוריך וגו׳ אמר רבה לדידי חזי לי האי<br />רידיא דמי לעיגלא(תלתא) ופירםא?< שפוותיה<br />וקיימא בין תהומא תתאר; לתתומא עילאת<br />לתהומא עילאה א״ל חשור מימיך לתהומא<br />תתאה א״ל אבע מימיך שנא׳ 3הנצנים נראו<br />בארץ וגו׳<br /><br />R. Eliezer said: When on the Feast of Tabernacles the water libations are carried out, Deep says to<br />Deep, ‘Let thy waters spring forth, I hear the voice of two friends’,10 as it is said, Deep calleth unto<br />Deep at the voice of Thy cataracts etc.11 Rabbah said: I myself have seen Ridya.12 who resembles a<br />three years’ old heifer, with its lips parted; he stands between the lower deep and the upper deep; to<br />the upper deep he says. ‘Distil thy waters’, and to the lower deep he says. ‘Let thy waters spring<br />forth’, as it is said, The flowers appear on the earth etc.13<br /><br /><br />Rashi says there, explaining where Ridya is standing (between the lower deep and the upper deep):<br /><br />בין<br />סהומא עילאה לסהאה. בין הרקיע<br />לאוקיינוס היכא דנשקי ארעא ורקיע:<br /><br />Between the lower deep and the upper deep: Between the sky and the ocean where the land and the sky touch.<br /><br />(Sorry if some of the hebrew has the wrong letters, I copy pasted from hebrewbooks) (Also, the Rashi translation is my own)<br /><br />Clearly Rashi is explaining where he thinks this Ridya character is standing and not just explaining what the Gemara thinks. No? And isn't this a clear proof that Rashi thought the Earth was flat, otherwise, how would the sky and earth touch?E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-1634211954984286422011-01-16T06:16:41.187-05:002011-01-16T06:16:41.187-05:00interesting... i'm not sure i've seen that...interesting... i'm not sure i've seen that rashi in Taanis. do you know the daf? to speak in generalities i am fairly confident without all this that Rashi believed in a flat earth, since this seems to be THE standard belief of Chazal. one might distinguish Rashi explaining Chazal and Rashi giving his own position. Rashi on gemara is explaining the gemara. Rashi on Chumach can more often be explaining the position of Rashi.<br /><br />kt,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-58292828110119095132011-01-14T10:52:30.616-05:002011-01-14T10:52:30.616-05:00>. Anyone have any biographical information on ...>. Anyone have any biographical information on its author?<br /><br />R. Chaim Hirschensohn was brilliant and controversial. His basic biographical info can be found here<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Hirschensohn<br /><br />However it doesn't mention that he studied in the Hildesheimer Seminary, and ran majorly afoul of the Chareidim in Eretz Yisrael, not only for his association with Ben Yehuda, but also for his journal Hamisderonah which was basically a modern scholarly type journal. Since it was published in Jerusalem it drove them crazy. See <a href="http://ishimshitos.blogspot.com/2009/09/guardian-of-jerusalem-or-part-2.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. In addition, he taught in the Laemel School. He was put into cherem in 1887.<br /><br />Eventually he settled in America and became rav in Hoboken. He published several volumes of sheelos uteshuvos, was a brilliant talmid chochom, etc. <br /><br />Re haskamos, in 1929 he was of sufficient stature and age that he didn't ask for haskamos - people asked him for them. <br /><br />You definitely pegged him right re borderline controversial things.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-62375122484240881742011-01-14T06:53:55.614-05:002011-01-14T06:53:55.614-05:00The one in taanis. Rashi is explicit that he think...The one in taanis. Rashi is explicit that he thinks that the ocean and the sky meet at one point.E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-12851987183176519422011-01-14T05:39:41.190-05:002011-01-14T05:39:41.190-05:00in terms of omer ani, from what i recall from dr. ...in terms of omer ani, from what i recall from dr. hurwitz's class, we would think that when Rashi says omer ani, he is giving his own opinion. (but isn't it all his opinion?) and echoing his ancestor Rabbi. but if we look, a whole bunch of these omer ani's are not in very early texts of Rashi, and start off as marginal or extra notes by a student of Rashi. and the author of this note took pains to distinguish it from Rashi, by preceding it with "and <b>I</b> say..." thus, one should be suspicious of anything that begins with this.<br /><br />kol tuv,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-29782392202030149362011-01-14T04:23:54.889-05:002011-01-14T04:23:54.889-05:00Z:
intersting. see here and here for some biograph...Z:<br />intersting. see <a href="http://menachemmendel.blogspot.com/2006/12/new-edition-of-shut-malki-bakodesh.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20061030095001/http://ajhistory.blogspot.com/2005/08/1887-herem-against-r-hayyim.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> for some biographical info.<br /><br />kt,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-89768801733822604112011-01-14T03:40:35.623-05:002011-01-14T03:40:35.623-05:00which Rashi? the prsent one, or the one discussed ...which Rashi? the prsent one, or the one discussed in the post regarding Mizrachi?joshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-87014587957193544532011-01-13T23:06:37.473-05:002011-01-13T23:06:37.473-05:00Rabbi Slifkin or WaxmanRabbi Slifkin or WaxmanE-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-67168503985269175612011-01-13T23:06:12.048-05:002011-01-13T23:06:12.048-05:00Rabbi, why did you not bring this Rashi as a clear...Rabbi, why did you not bring this Rashi as a clear proof that Rashi holds the world is flat and that at the end of the world the sea touches the sky? Or did you? If you did, how did anyone respond to this CLEAR AS DAY proof?E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-30738517688511614142011-01-13T16:49:14.108-05:002011-01-13T16:49:14.108-05:00Thank you for this post! I was having some trouble...Thank you for this post! I was having some trouble with this rashi last week and this clarifies things. I was also unaware of the sefer Nemukei Rashi which you quoted. Anyone have any biographical information on its author? S.? I see he says some borderline controversial things such as the next piece where he says that rashi didn't have a map, etc. I also noticed that the sefer has no approbations. Maybe he couldn't find any other rabannim in America in those days.<br /><br />Can you elaborate on what you mean by saying that when it says "Omar Ani" it's a cue that it's not rashi? <br />Thank you.Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-80376777658817544272011-01-13T16:23:26.432-05:002011-01-13T16:23:26.432-05:00thanks.
i agree with you that this is the simplest...thanks.<br />i agree with you that this is the simplest and most straightforward meaning of east wind, and that Rashi is correct on this score.<br /><br />kol tuv,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-20828367699042227632011-01-13T14:36:56.324-05:002011-01-13T14:36:56.324-05:00In my extremely humble opinion, there is no questi...In my extremely humble opinion, there is no question at all regarding the "east wind".<br /><br />An East Wind is a wind blowing <br />from the East.<br /><br />It is not a west wind blowing east.<br />That would make it a West Wind.<br /><br />The rest of this blog post is too much for me.... I have no further comment.<br /><br />Have a great day - or night...Devorahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00793434651294780439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-91263287285462358292011-01-13T12:30:05.140-05:002011-01-13T12:30:05.140-05:00thanks!thanks!joshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-26831266625839131352011-01-13T12:18:54.760-05:002011-01-13T12:18:54.760-05:00Rashi subscribed to the Babylonian cosmology of Ch...Rashi subscribed to the Babylonian cosmology of Chazal, so he did believe in a flat earth. See Rashi’s comments to Ta’anis 25b, s.v. Bein Tehoma. And Rabbeinu Tam also subscribed to it.Natan Slifkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04488707201313046847noreply@blogger.com