tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post5726004986634551980..comments2024-03-05T21:22:43.426-05:00Comments on parshablog: Ibn Ezra as a Round-Eartherjoshwaxmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03516171362038454070noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-73851214340103564402021-03-02T11:33:11.001-05:002021-03-02T11:33:11.001-05:00Read Zohar10a, it clearly refers to the earth as a...Read Zohar10a, it clearly refers to the earth as a ball way before ibn ezra. I am pretty sure this is what Ibn Ezra was referring to.Torahlover613https://www.blogger.com/profile/08095478744498413823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-73568340803116272932010-07-26T17:40:18.484-04:002010-07-26T17:40:18.484-04:00check the update to the post, where i cite from el...check the update to the post, where i cite from elsewhere another quote from Ibn Ezra which refers to the earth as a galgal, in a discussion of Ptolemaic astronomy, where Ptolemy maintains the earth was a sphere.<br /><br />kol tuv,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-74251716041033646912010-07-26T14:51:27.783-04:002010-07-26T14:51:27.783-04:00"It seems to me that this is a more likely re..."It seems to me that this is a more likely reading of Ibn Ezra."<br /><br />why? he lived in Muslim Spain in the 11st century, where standard Muslim astronomy assumed a spherical earth. see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth" rel="nofollow">here</a>, which i should have linked to initially. and what scientific proofs are there as to the circular shape of the plane? i'll read that wikipedia article carefully, but are you certain that this reflects belief in a flat earth?<br /><br />to cite that Wikipedia article you linked to:<br />"This qualitative and conceptual type of medieval cartography represents only the top-half of a spherical Earth."<br /><br />so don't look at the flat page and assume it is flat. wrap the page around the top hemisphere.<br /><br />kol tuv,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-64555428738136913692010-07-26T14:10:57.600-04:002010-07-26T14:10:57.600-04:00I was going to ask the same question. Tosefos in A...I was going to ask the same question. Tosefos in Avoda Zara (41a d.h kakadur) also claims that the world is 'round' but I think that they are referring to a disk rather than a sphere.<br />Tosefos refers to the story of Alexander going to heaven and seeing the world spread out before him like a 'ball' surrounded by the ocean.<br />I know that the simple reading of 'ball' (which is the word the mishna uses) is a sphere, but I believe that both the story of Alexander, and the concept of 'surrounded by ocean' imply a round tea biscuit floating in tea, rather than a matza ball floating in chicken soup.<br />I know that you wrote about the Yerushalmi in <a href="http://parsha.blogspot.com/2009/09/alexanders-ascent-via-griffin-or.html" rel="nofollow">your blog</a> already<br />but there you assume that it refers to a spherical earth, rather than disk shape.<br />In this <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_world_maps" rel="nofollow">wikipedia entry</a> there are many ancient maps which show the world as a flat disk surrounded by water.<br />It seems to me that this is a more likely reading of Ibn Ezra.rabbi sedleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276453426346276243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-10067594178447579032010-07-26T12:21:45.567-04:002010-07-26T12:21:45.567-04:00you're right. i don't know this absolutely...you're right. i don't know this absolutely. it was my assumption based on how this was something that was discussed, and proven before this, plus that Ibn Ezra speaks of absolute scientific *proofs*. i don't know of any scientific proofs that it is a disc rather than a four-cornered plane, but this might just be my ignorance of the history of science. was any such clear scientific proof offered? plus, if he is speaking of scientific proofs, then my *assumption* is that he is aware of the cutting-edge science, with its <b>proofs</b> (e.g. shadow on the moon, ships sinking past the horizon), where Islamic astronomy inherited the spherical earth from the Greek astronomical tradition, from Aristotle and Ptolemy. is would be a lot weirder for him to speak of clear scientific proofs to something false, which did not accord with what scientists of his time thought. how would one prove scientifically that at the edge of the plane, it was rounded rather than a right angle?<br /><br />also, the implication within the pasuk that Hashem was dwelling above the curved Earth, which works conceptually better as a curve in height (just like the firmament) rather than as a flat plate.<br /><br />i think it is a reasonable reading.<br /><br />kol tuv,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-975434854274177222010-07-26T11:52:35.706-04:002010-07-26T11:52:35.706-04:00How do you know that "round" means a sph...How do you know that "round" means a sphere rather than a disc?Copernicusnoreply@blogger.com