tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post1108546794074184136..comments2024-03-05T21:22:43.426-05:00Comments on parshablog: The Age of Trup -- part iijoshwaxmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03516171362038454070noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-70727195129492814032008-06-29T13:01:00.000-04:002008-06-29T13:01:00.000-04:00yehuda:if you want a better picture of this, it is...yehuda:<BR/>if you want a better picture of this, it is best to read the full Vikuach on this. he addresses all of this.<BR/><BR/>I would also note that the problem with Zohar is that it makes mention (and derasha) specifically of the *orthographic* signs of trup -- how zarka resembles a snake, if I recall correctly. In which case one would be compelled to say that it was more than simply shebaal peh, in order to allow the Zohar to not be anachronistic. This in addition to a number of other anachronisms in Zohar and Tikkunim.<BR/><BR/>By the way, Anonymous, in terms of answering Shadal, I think my own approach to answering it is in firmer ground than just appeal to taus sofer. Check it out <A HREF="http://parsha.blogspot.com/2008/01/reflections-so-far-on-age-of-trup.html" REL="nofollow">here, on this old post on parshablog</A>.<BR/><BR/>Kol Tuv,<BR/>Joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-38427915035848364172008-06-29T12:56:00.000-04:002008-06-29T12:56:00.000-04:00Anonymous:Are you the same as Yehuda?If you want t...Anonymous:<BR/>Are you the same as Yehuda?<BR/><BR/>If you want to become familiar with the Vikuach, you can click on the link for the label of "Vikuach al Chochmat haKabbalah" at the bottom of the post and read my translation for most of it.<BR/><BR/>There are times when one can determine that there is a taut soferim, or a different girsa. However, it does not seem to be intellectually honest to just posit it given no other evidence because a conclusion otherwise would make someone theologically uncomfortable.<BR/><BR/>Especially given that, as Shadal points out, it is not just Rashi, but the other medieval commentators who hold this as well, some of them explicitly so. We are talking about Rashbam, Ibn Ezra, Abarbanel, Rabbenu Bachya, and Radak, among others. In light of this, it seems highly speculative to simply assume that the five example (which are only examples, but there are others) of Rashi diverting from trup or nikkud are the result of taus sofer.<BR/><BR/>It reminds me of when a rav of a certain shul was shown a Rambam talking about the importance of learning science. He did not know what to do with it for a minute or two, and then finally decided that it was a ziyuf, and then all was right in the world.joshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-71186204431863549502008-06-29T03:42:00.000-04:002008-06-29T03:42:00.000-04:00Also, in addition to the above comment, does anyon...Also, in addition to the above comment, does anyone say that the reason we do NOT find the nekkudot,and ta'amim in early writings, is becaue they were in fact given on Har Sinai, and meant to be Torah ShBal Peh,,(not meant to be transcribed),and this removes the question on why the zohar spoke about them, and so, due to the length of golus, some of it was lost, or different girsa here and there, but for the majority, it was handed down from generation to generation in tact....just as received in Sinai?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-61819290419121601082008-06-29T01:59:00.000-04:002008-06-29T01:59:00.000-04:00"while Rashi made use of the trup and nikkud as pr..."while Rashi made use of the trup and nikkud as proof, on occasion Rashi will offer an explanation which goes against the nikkud or the trup. He now goes on to show that the same is true for Rashbam:"<BR/><BR/>while I am not very familiar with this vichuach, is not possible to say that just like many times Rashi will have a different girsa in the gemorah, or times we have a taos sofrim, so here too, this can be the reason for the so called contradiction?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com