tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post4062323431980662635..comments2024-03-05T21:22:43.426-05:00Comments on parshablog: Should shatu have stress on the first or last syllable?joshwaxmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03516171362038454070noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-56684379379087282992009-06-16T18:15:59.571-04:002009-06-16T18:15:59.571-04:00"לית ומלרע" means "there is no othe..."לית ומלרע" means "there is no other like it, and it is milera", meaning that this word is an exception. This is a very common way for the mesorah to express itself. <br />You are correct that there are some sefarim that have it marked mileil with 2 Telisha Ketanas; the Korein Tanach has it has such. I just don't think the Korein Tanach outweighs the Minchas Shai. I personally try to follow the Minchas Shai in all aspects of laining. If one is truly mesupak, it's probably better to do it mileil, since as milera it can be misconstrued as coming from the shoresh "שטה", and it cannot be misconstrued as mileil. My only point was that the Minchas Shai seems to clear that it should be read milrah; that is how I read it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-31943995457766804932009-06-16T08:11:45.422-04:002009-06-16T08:11:45.422-04:00I would add that, for example, Shadal has two teli...I would add that, for example, <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=2X4tAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0Xsqzch6wYCUUn&as_brr=1#PPA94,M1" rel="nofollow">Shadal</a> has two telisha marks in his Chumash:<br />http://books.google.com/books?id=2X4tAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0Xsqzch6wYCUUn&as_brr=1#PPA94,M1<br /><br />kt,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-17443023887367926482009-06-16T08:07:07.925-04:002009-06-16T08:07:07.925-04:00i guess i misparsed the minchas shai. it says that...i guess i misparsed the minchas shai. it says that there is no kadmon masur alav, and so it is milera.<br />whoops!<br />kt,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-59043278166949004162009-06-16T07:20:39.907-04:002009-06-16T07:20:39.907-04:00how would you translate לית ומלרע? that is how i t...how would you translate לית ומלרע? that is how i took it, but i readily admit i could have read it wrong, influenced by anon1's comment, and that i saw one sefer which was meduyak and had two telishas on the word...<br /><br />i would just point out that this was my deficient relaying of a complex point, and i did not necessarily tell it over accurately. the "shoteh" point was certainly influenced by the pun, and he was not dealing with Minchat Shai, which I don't believe he uses. so you don't need to get insulted on Minchas Shai's behalf. :) (Dr. Segal bases himself on Ktav Yad Petersburg, if I understand correctly, seems to only have the mark at the end, rather than duplication. <br />http://www.tanach.us/Tanach.xml#Num11:8-11:10<br />)<br /><br />kt,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5589564.post-6226529792941245742009-06-16T00:41:05.333-04:002009-06-16T00:41:05.333-04:00The Minchas Shai does not bring two opinions; he o...The Minchas Shai does not bring two opinions; he only brings one: that the word is pronounced milera. He simply adds on that if not for the tradition that the word is milera, we wouldn't be able to bring proof from the position of the Telisha Ketanah on the word, since a Telisha Ketanah is always on the last letter. Nonetheless, it's clear that the Minchas Shai holds that this word is to be pronounced milera, which he agrees is unusual (surely because it is from the "nachei ayin vav" family, as you point out, and should fundamentally be mileil). If Dr. David Segal wants to call the Minchas Shai a fool, that's his prerogative.<br />See the Sefer "Emes L'Yaakov" by R' Yaakov Kaminetsky, on this pasuk. He defends the Minchas Shai on the grounds that the word is followed by a word beginning with a heh ("Ha'am") and in those cases (i.e. next word beginning with aleph or heh) we often change a word which was "supposed" to be mileil to milera; the classic example of this is the word "lamah" which we find pronounced both as mileil and milerah in the same posuk in this very parsha.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com